No One Cares About Your Class: What to Do When Students Only Care About Their Dual Credit Courses and Not Yours [Episode 239]

Rebecca Joyner [00:00:01]:
I was recently asked, how do you make high school classes matter to the upper level students who are also taking college dual credit classes? And while dual credit classes are new in the last few years, really since COVID with the online options, I feel like dual credit really blew up. Having college level courses like AP and ib, like that whole concept is not new. For as long as I’ve been a teacher and as long as I’ve been a student, you know, the students around me and the students have had in my classroom have been taking some combination of different leveled courses, whether that’s an ap, IB or dual credit course, or several of those alongside, you know, general electives, honors courses, that kind of thing. I distinctly remember my senior physics teacher being so frustrated because we were all taking like honors Physics one, but also many of us were also taking AP Chemistry, AP Bio, AP English, AP Calc, and like, yeah, it’s a fact that we did not care about our honors physics course as much as we cared about those AP courses.

So while I originally was going to make this whole episode about like high schoolers taking college courses, how do we manage dual credit and balance it with our other courses and make them care? Like at the end of the day, the whole thing theme of this or like the idea, the universal thread that ties this all together is like, what do you do when no one cares about your class? You know, specifically when students only prioritize their dual credit courses or those higher level courses. But really it translates to any scenario where you feel like you teach a course, whether it’s an elective or an on grade level or even an honors class like my honors physics, that just doesn’t compare to the courses that other students are taking and thus they don’t compare care about it. How do you respond? So that’s what we’re going to talk about today. Let’s get into it.

Rebecca Joyner [00:01:54]:
This is Secondary Science Simplified, a podcast for secondary science teachers who want to engage their students and simplify their lives. I’m Rebecca Joyner from It’s Not Rocket Science. As a high school science teacher turned curriculum writer, I am passionate about helping other science teachers, love their jobs, serve their students, and do it all in only 40 hours a week. Are you ready to rock the time you spend in your classroom and actually have a life outside of it? You are in the right place, teacher friend.

Speaker B [00:02:24]:
Let’s get to today’s episode. So I’m going to start this off by saying something a little harsh, but it is the truth and it’s this, y’ all of Course, your students care more about their dual credit and their AP and their IB courses. Then they care about your honors physics course or your elective anatomy course. They care more because the stakes are higher for those courses. Maybe they’ve paid something, maybe like for dual credit, it’s going to be a direct transfer to college for AP or an ib. Even if they don’t pass the exam, it’s going to look better on their resume. It’s going to potentially impact their GPA more than your course does. So of course they care more.

Speaker B [00:03:08]:
Of course the stakes are higher. Now that’s not to say that your course that you teach doesn’t have stakes and you can identify those to students to try to help them care more. Like you can say, well, you need another science credit to graduate or you know it’ll look bad on your resume if you fail this class your senior year. Like you totally gave up or even not even fail. Like if you, if you’re gonna put all your energy in these AP and dual credit classes and then you’re gonna get like a C in your honors physics class, like that’s not a good look. But the problem is you can’t change those stakes. Like, you can identify them if they’re there, but you yourself cannot change them. They are what they are.

Speaker B [00:03:46]:
What you can change is your expectations of your students and your personal attitude towards them. Again, think about this rationally. Why should we expect them to care as much as we do about our courses, especially our ones that, that are not high stakes courses. At the end of the day, you simply are going to care about this more than they do. Why? One, because it’s your job, and most likely it’s a job you chose to have. They’re required to be in your class to some degree. You are not necessarily required to be there to some degree. Again, you by nature, if you’re a teacher, are most likely a helper.

Speaker B [00:04:27]:
And so you have chosen to be in a helping profession. Most likely, if you’re teaching science, it’s because you love science or you, you’re passionate about your subject matter. So all of these put together, like make it obvious that you’re just going to care more than they will. And also I should say too, you’re probably going to care about them more than they are definitely going to care about you and your opinion of them. You know, I feel like all teenagers to some extent are like slightly narcissistic and it’s just kind of a part of them growing up and being humbled and being more aware of their surroundings, in the world around them. So, like, of course you’re going to be more aware of them and caring more about them. Okay, so how do we respond to this? Like, this is just. This is.

Speaker B [00:05:07]:
I hate to give you, like, the lay of the land to start it off, but, like, this is what it is. Okay? But it’s not what it has to be because you have options here. You can get them to care more or you can personally care less. Now, when we break down these options a little bit, I’m pretty sure you’ll see that, like, you cannot force them to care more. Like, we, we, we cannot make them care. We can again, we can identify stakes. We can say, hey, I know I’m aware that this isn’t an AP course or this isn’t a dual credit course or whatever. I know, I’m aware you’re going to spend more time preparing for those courses than you are for mine.

Speaker B [00:05:47]:
But you did still sign up for this course. It is a course that you are going to be sitting through. So, like, let’s make the most of it together. Okay? Now, how do you adjust your expectations so that you care less? How do we do this? You’re going to have to take your clenched fists that you have death gripping your course, and you’re going to have to soften your hand on it a little bit. Okay? You are going to have to lower the bar of your expectations, if you will, like not saying make your course not as rigorous, but you yourself cannot put your course on this high of a pedestal. That is going to help a lot in terms of your general attitude. I would also encourage you, don’t assign homework. Don’t expect them to do anything outside of your class.

Speaker B [00:06:34]:
They are going to for sure be spending all their outside class time on these other courses, and that’s to be expected. Again, the stakes are higher. But here’s a way that I love to negotiate with students. And this is one of the reasons why I stopped assigning homework. If you respect my time when you’re in my classroom, I will respect yours outside of my classroom. I will not require any more from you than what you’re doing in this course. Okay? And in my time with you, that way you can use all your other time to focus on all these other courses. And I will say my honors physics teacher did do this.

Speaker B [00:07:06]:
Yes, we did have practice problems, but we had time to do them in class. If we needed to have more time outside of it for reinforcement, we had that flexibility. But he acknowledged, like, yeah, we’re all advanced science students because we’re taking honors physics as seniors, but because we’re advanced honors students, we’re also taking all these other AP classes because, again, at the time, we didn’t have dual credit. So he was realistic about it, and that was fair. And he lowered the bar of, like, the workload we’d have outside the class. And it really was a class where it was like, okay, if you pay attention in class, if you do your practice problems, if you come in and take initiatives you need, like, you’re going to get an A in the class, you’ll do well in the test. I’m not trying to trick you. I’m not going to have any of these big, outrageous projects.

Speaker B [00:07:48]:
We did some fun labs, and overall, it ended up being a really positive experience because we all acknowledged the reality of the situation, and we ended up respecting him more because it felt like he respected us and understood the loads that all of us were carrying. So I want you to consider how you can adjust your expectations in a similar manner, especially if you’re teaching upperclassmen, because typically, that’s what I’m. I’m anticipating. Whoever sent this in and most of you having this problem. That’s what we’re talking about here is really those upperclassmen students who have their sight set on, like, the next stage of life that they’re going to be in. And so saying, like, hey, let’s just make this positive while this is here. This doesn’t have to be your favorite course. It doesn’t have to be the most important course to you, but we’re still going to make this time valuable while you’re in here.

Speaker B [00:08:30]:
And your enthusiasm and your positive attitude is contagious. Like, I think leading by example is always the way. I think modeling is, like, one of the best ways we can teach our students anything, if you will. And so make your classroom a place that they want to be. Even if your course isn’t a course they want to care about. You can be a safe place for them. Your classroom can be a safe place, and it can be a place where they can still learn and thrive, even if you’re not, like, the number one priority. I also think you can emphasize with your students, like, a very key life skill is learning how to do stuff that you don’t care about.

Speaker B [00:09:06]:
Okay, they may not care about your class, but they’re gonna have to do all sorts of things their whole life that they don’t care about or they don’t want to do. And so this is a Good opportunity for them to grow in that skill. That is an important life skill they’re going to be challenged to use the rest of their lives. So kind of give them that perspective. I, I’m a big fan, always of complete candor in my classes and, and saying from the start of the year like, hey, I know this is an elective anatomy course. I know it’s not going to affect your GPA as much. I know it’s not going to transfer to college credit. But I also still know there are so many cool things for us to learn, there are so many fun things for us to research and discover together.

Speaker B [00:09:43]:
And I want to have a great time learning anatomy with you and I want you to love the human body and think it’s amazing. So I need you to give me what you’ve got in this classroom when we’re here and I will lower my expectations outside this classroom so that we can have a positive year all around together. Now, practically, you might be thinking, well then how do I like, move forward though, with this? How do I, on a daily basis not care that they don’t care? You know, what does that look like? Well, first, it looks like putting things in their proper place. Okay, this is your job. It is not your life. Do your job as best as you can within your current capacity, in your current season, and then shut the door on the day and let it be. You are a human and you can only do so much. You are not responsible for their lives and their success and their GPAs as much as they try to convince you that you are.

Speaker B [00:10:37]:
So you need to give yourself some grace. You do everything you need to do to support them in the time that you have them in your classroom and then let the consequences lie where they lie. You cannot take the test for them, you cannot do the lab for them. You cannot complete the project for them. You cannot walk across the graduation stage for them. They have to do it and they’re not going to be good at this. Their muscles and their capacity to be resilient, their ability to be go getters, to achieve things, to do things that are inconvenient and hard and don’t seem to have a lot of rewards. Them like, that’s not muscles they use a lot.

Speaker B [00:11:15]:
They’re atrophied, if you will. The only way they’re going to get better in those areas of life are if we force them to use those muscles and practice it. So put things in their proper place. You do what you’re supposed to do. You do your due diligence okay? And then you let it be what it is. Don’t let there be any surprises at the end of the year. So again, make it clear from the beginning of the year. Here’s my stance.

Speaker B [00:11:37]:
Here’s how I expect you to show up. Here are my expectations for you. I’m going to be super clear. I’m going to provide opportunities for you to get support if you need it. Coming to tutoring, whatever that may be. I’m going to contact your parents or any other adults to get involved as needed. Maybe you got to reach out to the school counselor because they’re falling behind. Maybe it’s a social worker if they’re missing a lot of days of your class.

Speaker B [00:11:59]:
School psychologist, resource teacher, their parents, like, their guardians. I don’t know who it is, but you’ll get other people involved as needed. You’ll remind and reinforce expectations with them. And then you have to give them space to make their own choices on your side of things. You document everything and the consequences will ensue naturally from there. Like, your goal is not to drag them again across that graduation stage with their diploma. If they don’t care about your course, they need to graduate. Like, that’s not on you.

Speaker B [00:12:26]:
You just keep doing the best you can to make your learning environment a place that is a great place to learn and go first in positivity and enthusiasm for your subject and hope that they’ll fall in line from there. Then at the end of the day, you do kind of have to accept the reality that some students are just never going to care, especially when they have all these other classes that are taking all of their energy from caring about yours. Unfortunately, that may result in some students failing, but that doesn’t mean that if students fail, you fail and that you’re a failure. There are things that are outside of your control. What you need to do is just assess the things that are in your control. Looking at your course and looking at your caseload and the. The demographic of the students in your class and what their typical other classes are that they’re taking. And again, the natural stakes that your class has.

Speaker B [00:13:15]:
Maybe your class has literally no stakes other than it being on their resume and affecting their gpa. There’s no other way to, like, motivate them. They don’t need it to graduate or anything like that. Okay, then let’s maybe re. Look how we’re stressed about the curriculum we’re getting through and the standards. Let’s maybe relook how we’re assessing students. Again, I’m not saying lower the bar to make your classes easier, but take the pressure off of students and yourself. It makes you think of a pressure cooker when you just release some of that pressure.

Speaker B [00:13:42]:
Just do that for you and your students. That’s how you control what you can control and you support them and put your course in its own proper place. Like, it is not a dual credit course, it is not the AP course, and that’s okay. It can still be a great and valuable course. You can still have a great learning environment for students, and you can still have a great year. Within you are a call to equip your students as best as you can with your teaching methods, your resources, your life skills that you’re training them in. And then all the extra things you, you offer for them for support, whether that’s tutoring hours, videos online for more support, textbooks they can reference, whatever. And then from there you let it be and you let them make those choices.

Speaker B [00:14:25]:
It’s actually a disservice for us to do it for them and hold their hand, especially for these upperclassmen in these last few years. We are conditioning them then that they can’t do it and that they’ll never mature. And if they never experience consequences for their actions and their choices, they’ll never learn about natural consequences. And those are the best ones to have. So we’ve got to help them build the muscles of I don’t care about this, but I’ll do it anyway, because again, that is a muscle they’re going to use for the rest of their lives. All right, so here’s your take home challenge for today. Take a deep breath and then take an honest look at your course and maybe assess. Is there a way that I could lighten this load a little bit that I could relieve some pressure from the pressure cookie so that they don’t have to have homework, we don’t have to have these extended projects outside of class where we’re not as rushed in our pace because there’s no point to be rushed because it’s an elective or whatever it may be.

Speaker B [00:15:21]:
Or like my honors physics teacher, like physics was an important class. A lot of us went on to need it in college. But he understood we were taking all these other APs and things and he said, okay, then we’re going to kind of just do, go back to the basics and do the minimum. We’ll do a little bit of direct instruction, we’re going to do practice, we’ll do the labs, rinse and repeat. And it just was what it was, was it the most creative class? Because could he have done all these other things? Could he have pushed us way harder? Probably. But I still had a great understanding of physics and it was a place I wanted to be, and it was something that didn’t add to my stress level when I cared so much more about all these other courses I was taking for college. So I hope you can take an honest look at your course as well, and I hope that this encourages you, take some of the pressure off of yourself. I have a couple other episodes about, you know, student apathy and things like that and motivation.

Speaker B [00:16:06]:
I’m going to link them in the show notes, which you can find@itcentralockinscienceclassroom.com Episode 239 all right, teacher friends, that wraps up today’s episode. If you’re looking for an easy way to start simplifying your life as a

Rebecca Joyner [00:16:19]:
secondary science teacher teacher, head to itsnotrocketscienceclassroom.com challenge to grab your classroom reset challenge.

Speaker B [00:16:27]:
And guess what? It’s totally free.

Rebecca Joyner [00:16:30]:
Thanks so much for tuning in and

Speaker B [00:16:31]:
I’ll see you here next week. Until then, I’ll be rooting for you, teacher friend.