Serving English Learners in Your Science Classroom With Risa Woods of Every Teacher [Episode 204]

Rebecca Joyner [00:00:01]:
Y’, all, I am obsessed with this episode I get to share with you today. I’m so excited and I do have a slight confession to make. I did this interview over the summer and I have been waiting to share with you. But I waited because I just felt like it would encourage you the most once your school year was really in motion and your rosters were set and you’ve started getting to know your students. Maybe you’ve had your first test at this point and you’re really getting the lay of the land for the cultures, your classroom. Some of you are even finishing your first quarter up right now. So now is a great time to hopefully stop and encourage you if you’re feeling like maybe you’re not doing the best job reaching every learner in your classroom. And this episode is going to be for you because it is all about serving your English learners or your multilingual learners in your classroom.

Rebecca Joyner [00:00:54]:
If you’ve listened to this podcast for a while, I’ve done a couple episodes on this, but I always am trying to bring in guests because it is just something that I felt so ill equipped to do. I felt like I did not get nearly enough training, no real experience, my practicum with this. And so I’m just so thrilled always when I can bring someone in who’s excited to talk about this with me. And I am so thrilled to introduce you all to Risa woods of Every Teacher. Risa is a former ELL teacher who she just left the classroom this past year and in order to spend all of her time supporting teachers supporting their English learners. So she is just such a gift to have and know and introduce y’ all to. She has a ton of experience and knows firsthand how overwhelming it can feel to support these learners without the right tools or training. And after years of figuring it out the hard way herself, she now helps general education teachers feel confident and equipped to reach every student and especially those learning English.

Rebecca Joyner [00:01:53]:
And that is why she started her business, which she now runs, which is Every Teacher. Through practical strategies and professional development and her Instagram page, she makes it simple for educators to create classrooms where English language learners and their teachers can thrive. I’ll link all her stuff because she travels now and does PD for schools and districts and I just couldn’t think of anyone better to do it. After our conversation, I asked her like a thousand questions and I always send my guest questions in advance and sometimes I just go rogue and skip around and that’s how I felt talking to her because it just everything she said I just could think of more questions or more things. And she just gave so much great advice and wisdom for how best to serve these students. Like, I can’t even give you a bullet point summary because we covered so much, but here’s what I will say if you’re feeling anything, any sort of apprehension about listening to this episode. Like, you’re like, I don’t need another thing to do. Listen.

Rebecca Joyner [00:02:48]:
I love Risa’s attitude and just the overall way she approaches education and serving these students. Like, she is such an encouragement. And I just know, I feel so strongly that she’s going to encourage you with her words and the simple, simple strategies she shares. Y’ all know we love simple things here. And she, she’s very clear in this episode. Multiple times she says, like, if you can only do one thing, do this, or if you’re going to do two things, like, do these two things. It’s just a very helpful episode. So if you’re listening and you feel like you’re at that point in the year where you’re like, wow, I’m just not reaching these students, or I don’t have time to serve them how I want to, or I feel like I’m failing them, like, this episode is for you.

Rebecca Joyner [00:03:31]:
So without further ado, I’m going to shut my trap and get you to this conversation with Risa woods of Every teacher. This is Secondary Science Simplified, a podcast for secondary science teachers who want to engage their students and simplify their lives. I’m Rebecca Joyner from It’s Not Rocket Science. As a high school science teacher turned curriculum writer, I am passionate about helping other science teachers love their jobs, serve their students, and do it all in only 40 hours a week? Are you ready to rock the time you spend in your classroom and actually have a life outside of it? You are in the right place, teacher friend. Let’s get to today’s episode. Hi, Risa, how are you?

Risa Woods [00:04:17]:
Hi. Great. How are you doing?

Rebecca Joyner [00:04:18]:
Good. I’m so excited to talk to you. I just feel like you’re a unique person to talk to you, and you have a lot of insight that I’m really excited for my listeners to hear about.

Risa Woods [00:04:27]:
Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here and just to kind of talk with you and hear what you have to say, but also kind of share maybe a few strategies that might help your listeners as they’re working through being in the classroom.

Rebecca Joyner [00:04:38]:
Seriously. Because I just, when I think back, I think I had such a misconception and that’s what I want to talk about with you first. Like, when I, like, got out of college, I was 22. I just. From my student teaching experience, all my ells were Spanish speakers, which I had a decent amount of Spanish background just from, like, regular schooling. So I felt like I could kind of work with them. And then I got to my first, like, official teaching job, and my ells were like, so diverse. So there was no.

Rebecca Joyner [00:05:06]:
There was no more, like, me being able to kind of make it work. And I had a really hard time in the beginning asking for help and, like, partnering with ELL teachers. And so I just did not do those students the justice they deserve. So I would really love to hear. That’s just my experience. What other misconceptions do you see secondary science teachers or just secondary teachers in general have about their English learner?

Risa Woods [00:05:28]:
Sure. Yeah. I mean, I first want to validate that experience. I think that’s an experience that a lot of people have, that they don’t get the. The right training or they don’t get enough training or. Yeah, it might be like. I remember, I think I had like a week, you know, in my. My undergrad, it was like, maybe a week that they even discussed.

Risa Woods [00:05:46]:
It’s like, oh, special populations. Okay. And then it’s done. So I just want to just affirm that first, that that’s such a universal experience that we get thrown into classrooms and we don’t know how to serve our students, and we start to feel guilty and we don’t, you know. So just for your listeners, like, that’s completely valid if you’re experiencing that. So first want to go back and kind of define a few things. English learner is the federal term. A lot of districts are moving towards multilingual learner.

Risa Woods [00:06:14]:
You know, you have Texas that uses emergent bilingual. So you have a lot of different. Thanks to describe the same thing, but just to say I like to use English learner because that is the federal term so far, but it is a student who has a language other than English inside the home. So actually, the majority of English learners or multilingual learners were born here. So you have a lot of students who were born in the United States who are under this classification of English learner. Then you also have students who in immigrated to the United States. So they could be coming from countries where they had elite private education and maybe even had some English classes. They could be coming from a refugee camp.

Risa Woods [00:06:54]:
Like, those are all under the English learner label. So we have evacuees, we have refugees, we have immigrants, we have American citizens who are under the English learner label. And one thing that they all share in common is that they will struggle with academic language. And then some students will be still struggling with or learning social language or just, you know, what we call plain English. So, yeah, so when you say, I have five English learners in your classroom, I have to say, well, tell me more. What does that mean? Does that mean that you have a student who was born and raised in the United States and they’ve been in the United States their whole life, and they might be struggling with academic language, or does that mean that you have someone who moved here from Central America last week? So, yeah, I think that’s a huge misconception. And just the idea that another misconception add to that is, I have a student who speaks English. Why are they an English learner? And that’s because of that, that difference between social language and academic language.

Risa Woods [00:07:52]:
And so they can communicate in the hallways, they can talk to their friends, they can post on TikTok. But they’re still struggling in my classroom. Might be because they’re struggling with the academic language piece, because academic language is not something that we pick up. Like, we’re not going to pick up learning about photosynthesis. You know, we’ll pick up learning about talking to our friends and whatnot, that kind of language, but we’re not going to pick up these other things. So those are some of the biggest misconceptions. Another one being, like, if you have an ELL teacher in your building that they speak all the languages, right? A lot of them are monolingual. We have a lot of ELL teachers that are monolingual.

Risa Woods [00:08:28]:
And so, you know, and they would. I. I get the. I’ve gotten the question a lot like, what. What language do you speak? And it’s like, well, I speak Spanish, but that doesn’t help me with my 26 languages in the classroom.

Rebecca Joyner [00:08:38]:
Like, well, even just all the different, like, dialects of Spanish. Like, people have asked me for years like that or really in the early years of writing curriculum, like, will you translate it to Spanish? And I talked to a few of my friends that are, like, fluent or who taught at, like, school with me, and they’re like, it would be impossible to do it. There would be people that would still complain because it would still not work for every student. And it’s like, all this effort in. Yeah, yeah, it’s tricky.

Risa Woods [00:09:03]:
It is tricky. So, yeah, those are some of the biggest misconceptions I would say that I hear and just that you Know you. You can be an effective teacher without. With being monolingual. Like, you could still be an effective teacher. There are things that you can do as a monolingual teacher. With multilingual learners in your classroom, though, it is fun to learn another language. I encourage that.

Risa Woods [00:09:20]:
But. But you can be an effective teacher even if you don’t speak another language.

Rebecca Joyner [00:09:24]:
Well, I’m excited to learn how to do that from you. So first, if a teacher is fortunate enough to have, like, ELL teachers or. Sorry, I keep saying ell, I should just say el. Right. I swear the acronym changes, though, every year.

Risa Woods [00:09:39]:
There are a lot of different districts that use different. You can say ell.

Rebecca Joyner [00:09:42]:
Right. Well, and then if I really want to age myself, I mean, when I. Student Todd, it was like esol, Other language.

Risa Woods [00:09:48]:
Esl.

Rebecca Joyner [00:09:49]:
Yeah.

Risa Woods [00:09:50]:
I was an ESL teacher when I.

Rebecca Joyner [00:09:51]:
First they dropped the O. Now they add in an L. Now we took the L. Okay, so. So if someone has an EL or an ML teacher at their school or there is a program in place, what does it look like to partner with them? Like, I think it’s so tricky to know what is my responsibility, what’s not. Like, how do I. I always worry about, like, overworking someone else, but at the same time, like, I feel overworked and frazzled. It’s like, yeah, who does what?

Risa Woods [00:10:19]:
Well, first, I’ll give a little bit of insider information that the majority of ELL teachers or MLL or ESOL teachers, they are very protective of their students. They’re advocates at their core. That’s what we’re taught to do, is to be advocates. So I think I’ve seen a lot of clashing from teachers and general education teachers and ELL teachers because of that, because possibly there isn’t a mutual trust there. But I really think it’s. I think both teachers have the students. Student first. So I just want to say that I think ELL students are typically.

Risa Woods [00:10:55]:
They can be a disenfranchised group of students. And so when you have an ELL teacher who is very protective, it could be very hard for them to see maybe the bigger picture. I don’t know if I’m making sense at this point, but what I want to say is the roles. So the role of an ELL teacher is to be the language expert, is to be the scaffolding expert in the room and an expert of that student. So when you have, you know, students here, like, I don’t know the background. I don’t know what they’re capable of, that ELL Teacher will be. Should be able to tell you what they’re capable of using data that they have or. Yeah, usually from a English proficiency exam.

Risa Woods [00:11:30]:
Whereas the. Obviously, the science teacher in the room is the curriculum, the content expert. What it looks like in that partnership, it really depends on the school. It depends on the district, depends on the people. You know, I have, in my experience, you know, I had. Where I’d push into classrooms and I would be kind of. We didn’t have enough time to co plan, but we would. I would jump in and kind of be a co teacher where I would maybe clarify concepts.

Rebecca Joyner [00:11:55]:
That’s so helpful. I would have loved to have had you.

Risa Woods [00:11:59]:
It’s. It’s a lot of fun. I mean, I love it. But then you have teachers that have, you know, 100 kids on their caseload and they’re, you know, in a high school and they have so many different classes and can only be there for one class a day or 10 minutes. And. And it really just depends on the school. So I think just starting with, starting with a conversation, starting the school year with a conversation being like, what can you do? What are you capable of doing? How often can you be here? And what does that look like while you’re here? I think just like, mapping that out with that teacher is super important. And then that conversation of like, okay, when you’re not here, what should I be doing? Or what can I be doing? Or how can I be serving these students? And that’s kind of why I even started my business was because.

Risa Woods [00:12:42]:
Because of that problem of, like, minimal ELL teachers and a lot of general education teachers not knowing what to do with, like, what do I do? I don’t have an ELL teacher in my classroom. I don’t know what to do. And so that’s. That’s why I do the professional development for teachers so that they can have those, like, baseline strategies to know, okay, I can. I can do this. When an ELL teacher is not in my class.

Rebecca Joyner [00:13:02]:
Well, that’s where I love the idea of the strategies for the scaffolding. Like, I loved when the teachers I partnered with, whether it was in the, like, resource classroom with a resource teacher or like, the ML supervisor, whoever. I loved when they just told me what they needed. Like, if you can print out this or do this, like, I felt like I could execute it. But then I think there are other things. Things. Or for instance, when I was on a team of biology teachers, there were five of us. Like, one of us made the EL tests and we made three choices and, like, it was always me.

Rebecca Joyner [00:13:31]:
I changed all the increase words to go up. Like, I did that kind of thing because. Yeah, and I had other teachers. Someone else wrote the honors test. Someone else wrote the. Oh, that’s kind of divide and conquer. But, like.

Risa Woods [00:13:41]:
Yeah.

Rebecca Joyner [00:13:41]:
Then I moved to school where I was at a private school, and there was no program, and I was the only teacher who taught first different sciences, and it kind of all fell on me. So what are, like, some of the simple things or first, I guess I should say, who does that actual scaffolding usually fall to?

Risa Woods [00:13:57]:
The.

Rebecca Joyner [00:13:58]:
The general classroom teacher or the EL rs? That depend.

Risa Woods [00:14:01]:
And then I really think it depends.

Rebecca Joyner [00:14:03]:
Okay, so it could go either way.

Risa Woods [00:14:05]:
Yeah. I think it would be awesome if the EL teacher could do it. But again, like, if they’ve got to serve a hundred kids and they’re in so many levels or classrooms, makes it really difficult. Maybe they could do, you know, like, the bigger things like projects or tests, but maybe not everything. So I was super fortunate. I did. I only pushed into a few classes, and this is rare, but, like, my teacher would upload the, like, worksheets or handouts on canvas, and then I would go through and I would modify them and then upload them, like, to upload them again, like, for our EL students. But again, that’s super.

Risa Woods [00:14:42]:
Like, that’s rare. I don’t know of a lot of people who had. Who had the time, the capacity to do that.

Rebecca Joyner [00:14:47]:
So then what would the recommendations be if, like, I’m the only one, I’m on an island. How do I serve them in ways that is simple, not, like, so overwhelming.

Risa Woods [00:14:56]:
Right, right. Do you mean, like in a whole group tier one setting, or do you mean, like, with those worksheets?

Rebecca Joyner [00:15:02]:
Anything.

Risa Woods [00:15:02]:
Okay. Anything.

Rebecca Joyner [00:15:03]:
Any help?

Risa Woods [00:15:06]:
Okay, so. Well, first I’ll start with kind of translating. So that’s kind of. That’s a big one that I hear a lot. Just translate everything and throw it in Google Translate or throw it in Canva and translate it, which is. I have what I call the paper plate theory. So let stick with me for a second. So when I had my kids, I had two under two, and I was super overwhelmed, and someone told me, like, hey, you should just stick to paper plates right now.

Risa Woods [00:15:31]:
Like, don’t do the dishes. Don’t, you know, like, stick to paper plates. And so it helped me so much to not have a, you know, a sink full of dishes on top of everything else I was doing because I was so overwhelmed. But if I were to keep that through my whole life, Right. That paper plate, it’s like, I don’t need to have paper plates right now. Like I have a five year old and a three year old. Like they sometimes help me load the dishwasher. You know, like that was a time when I was struggling, when I, it was, it was like an emergency E break setting was to have paper plates.

Risa Woods [00:16:03]:
And so I compare that with, with translation tools. It’s like if you’re, if you’re just like barely surviving and it’s the beginning of the school year and you don’t know what to do, and it’s like that is your one thing that you have, then. Yeah, throw it in translation. Sure. Like if that’s what you need, then do that. I’m all for that. Like, I’m not going to teach or shame anybody. But maybe long term, we start to add the other things in our toolbox.

Risa Woods [00:16:27]:
We start to maybe, you know, when we feel like we have our head above water, we could do other things other than the paper plates. Right. So translation tools are helpful if the student can read and write in that language.

Rebecca Joyner [00:16:40]:
Right.

Risa Woods [00:16:40]:
You’ll get students if, you know, if they’re born here and they don’t know how to read and write in Spanish or whatever language, maybe they don’t. Or perhaps they come from a country where they had interrupted learning and didn’t learn how to read or write in their own language. So translation tools like that, if you’re gonna throw a worksheet in translation, like that’s helpful for some, some students and if it’s helping, then great. Like, if that you feel like that’s effective right now, then great. But yeah, I just wanna encourage teachers to maybe add some more tools and so some of the other things, if we’re thinking about whole group setting that you could do quickly or easily and I, I feel like I say these things and then it’s kind of like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but really is to speak slowly and to speak in clear sentences.

Rebecca Joyner [00:17:25]:
I’m so bad at that. I’m so bad. I’m like, everyone, I feel like there are people who listen to this podcast who text DM me. They don’t text me and said like, I listened to you on like 08x or 0.6x and I’m like, I’m so sorry. I get so excited, especially about the science.

Risa Woods [00:17:42]:
Right.

Rebecca Joyner [00:17:42]:
But I cannot imagine what it would be like. Like, I hate that for them. That is so hard. You’re so right. Slowly.

Risa Woods [00:17:49]:
That’s such an easy thing. That takes no prep at all. To speak slowly and to enunciate.

Rebecca Joyner [00:17:55]:
Yeah. I would have to take some sort of medication to, like, lower my energy level. Look at the opposite of caffeine. I need, like, a d. Stimulant. Okay, keep going. Sorry.

Risa Woods [00:18:05]:
No, it’s fine. You’re not alone in that. There are a lot of teachers that speak quickly and use a lot of idiomatic phrases.

Rebecca Joyner [00:18:13]:
I do use. I do a lot of, like, charades. I’m, like, very much like a full body speaker. So maybe that would. Was helpful, even though that would cancel out the. Yeah.

Risa Woods [00:18:24]:
Maybe don’t know what she’s saying, but she’s waving her arms.

Rebecca Joyner [00:18:28]:
But she looks crazy. Okay.

Risa Woods [00:18:31]:
Yeah. So to speak slowly, to articulate when you’re speaking. I mean, think about when you’re learning another language and someone’s like. You’re like, I thought I knew this language.

Rebecca Joyner [00:18:39]:
Oh, my gosh.

Risa Woods [00:18:40]:
But now I’m listening, and I don’t know this language at all.

Rebecca Joyner [00:18:43]:
Still to this day, I’m like, I feel like I can read Spanish very well, and if I can speak slow enough, I can speak it. But hearing, like, the auditory processing, can’t do it.

Risa Woods [00:18:53]:
Yeah, so those are actually. And that’s another thing with ELL Students. Like, those are four different domains. So learn listening, reading, writing, and speaking. So a student could be strong in one of them and not in another one. So, yeah, speaking slowly and gestures are huge. I mean, it’s. It’s so easy to do, but it really does make a big difference if you’re starting to.

Risa Woods [00:19:17]:
I actually was. I was with a group of students for a field trip, and we went to the museum, and this lady’s like, are you the interpreter? I was like, no. And she’s like, okay, well, can you interpret this? I was like, okay, what are you gonna say? She, like. She said something. I don’t even know. She said something in English, like, super fast. And I was like, okay, so they’re gonna make groups. And I just.

Risa Woods [00:19:37]:
I said it exact. I said it in English again, only slowly. And I, like, made gestures. And she just, like. She just kept. It was like I was interpreting for her in English. So that’s exactly. I mean, that’s.

Risa Woods [00:19:51]:
That’s a big one. It’s just speaking slowly and making sure you are. You are articulating, like, clearly while you’re speaking.

Rebecca Joyner [00:20:00]:
Make your high school theater teacher proud, you know, with your diction.

Risa Woods [00:20:05]:
Yes, your diction. Yes. And like, I said to avoid those idioms. And if you do say an idiom or some sort of slang. I know slang is like really fun to use in the classroom. Just making sure that you’re defining it or, you know, telling what it means. So that’s a big one. Visuals, which again, that’s another thing that you say.

Risa Woods [00:20:23]:
You’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but really. And I mean like concrete visuals. I mean like not just throwing a gif or GIF up there and like thinking it’s funny and that’s fine. But like, what can you do to make sure that this material is being portrayed visually in the most concrete way? Visuals are, are really, really important.

Rebecca Joyner [00:20:42]:
Well, and science really lends itself to models and of all types. So that is a thing we have working for us as opposed to like the English teacher or whatever.

Risa Woods [00:20:50]:
Right, exactly. Other ones that I would include are modeling. So if you expect a student to have a conversation, for example, you want them to do a turn and talk, maybe at the beginning of the year, you. You model what that looks like for a turn and talk. You model if you want them to do an experiment. I feel like teachers, science teachers are usually pretty good at this, but you know, model what that looks like for them to fill up 10ml in the beaker or hold up the beaker so they can see beaker. You know, I’m not thinking beaker. What’s the word?

Rebecca Joyner [00:21:19]:
Actually, are you thinking about a test tube or a pipette or something?

Risa Woods [00:21:22]:
Yes, a test tube. I’m sorry.

Rebecca Joyner [00:21:24]:
Listen, I’m thinking about pipettes though, and like how many times I’ve had to demonstrate how to use it. Because even people who speak English, you have to like hold it and then submerge and release. But they all just do it and make bubbles. And I’m like, so we, science teacher are modeling. Don’t you worry?

Risa Woods [00:21:39]:
Yes, I do think that’s a perk of being a science teacher in that is that the modeling is there and the, the visuals and the like, the real life demonstrations are there a lot too. You know, when it comes to experiments or things like that. I would say when you’re defining. And that was. I don’t know if we want to talk about the vocabulary. Yeah. So thinking about how to teach science vocabulary, especially to newcomers, you want to think of student language, like student friendly language, which you always want to think of student friendly language. Right.

Risa Woods [00:22:11]:
But you want to think of how many academic words are you using just to describe this one thing? And like, could we focus on those higher leverage? Like if you’re trying to define this one word, maybe we could take out those Other academic language words so that they can focus on this one word. I kind of see that a lot. Where a lot of vocabulary is stacked. And that makes it really difficult for a student to understand that one phrase or one. One vocabulary word. I think focusing on the vocabulary you want them to know the most, maybe they’re not going to know the things 50 words that they need to know. But if they can know these 10, how could we focus on those 10 and really give them time to practice on it? One thing I like about in science classrooms is a lot of opportunities for like, word sorts or picture sorts.

Rebecca Joyner [00:23:00]:
Oh, yeah.

Risa Woods [00:23:00]:
Like, if that’s chemical and physical change, like, for them to do that or.

Rebecca Joyner [00:23:05]:
I love a card sort.

Risa Woods [00:23:06]:
Yeah, exactly. You can make that a picture sort too, if you have like already a card sort and just add pictures to it or just do pictures so that they can see what a physical change looks like or a chemical change could look like. Let’s see. Frayer models. Do you ever use frayer models?

Rebecca Joyner [00:23:21]:
No.

Risa Woods [00:23:21]:
Okay. It’s just a. It’s a way of knowing vocabulary or learning vocabulary. It’s just like a. It’s a graphical organizer.

Rebecca Joyner [00:23:28]:
Yes. Okay. Yes, I got it.

Risa Woods [00:23:30]:
You know what I’m talking about?

Rebecca Joyner [00:23:30]:
Yeah.

Risa Woods [00:23:31]:
Okay. You put the vocabulary in the center and then like, you draw a picture. You can even translate it to your language or give an example or a non example for those things.

Rebecca Joyner [00:23:41]:
Well, and I love having students make word walls for me. Like, people have asked me to make word walls, but I’m like, I think it’s better. Like, I used to love having my students. I’d have, like, different classes make them for. At the start of each unit. Like, or if you finish your test early.

Risa Woods [00:23:54]:
Yeah.

Rebecca Joyner [00:23:54]:
Like, the picture can be something you draw if you like drawing. Or you can just pull up a picture, but then you’re explaining it in your own words and I’ll help you. And then we leave them up for the whole unit. And then in some groups, I would, like, take the definition off and leave the picture in the word on the wall. But in others, I just leave it up. Because depending on the population, like, we all just need the definition. I don’t even care. Like, just leave it.

Rebecca Joyner [00:24:14]:
Cause that’s. I don’t care about you memorizing the definition as much as, like, getting it in the group, you know?

Risa Woods [00:24:19]:
Exactly. Yeah. That’s a great. I never heard of that.

Rebecca Joyner [00:24:23]:
Well, I love making students do stuff for me, you know, Like, I. I’m just not good at drawing. Like, that was people my students Always made fun of me. Everything was a stick figure. I did my best, but that’s where I’m like, okay, then you draw it because you are good. You’re doodling on your paper. Doodle on my wall and make a word wall for me.

Risa Woods [00:24:39]:
You know, and that’s a way to. Yeah. To make it more collaborative and give more buy in. And they’re practicing that. Like that’s. That’s. Yeah. I’ve never heard of someone doing that.

Risa Woods [00:24:46]:
So that’s really great.

Rebecca Joyner [00:24:48]:
So then I love that for the vocabulary with the help of that. What about like, just for tests? Like, again, I only just did this because they told me to. With the. Making it only three answer choices on multiple choice or making sure there was a word bank if there wasn’t for something or changing how it was written. But like, like, is it kosher to like take off, make the tests easier? Because I know like when we’re working with students, I know IEPs and 504s for my resource students so much better. Just because I had better partnerships to learn how to do that and better education. Like, I just knew, I knew very well how to accommodate instead of modify. But I feel like with my English learners it is more modification.

Risa Woods [00:25:27]:
I mean, yes and no. I think a lot of the things that, like I listened to your differentiation series and I think a lot of things that you have on there I think would be helpful for English learners. I think, you know, if you think about the brain, you think about how overwhelmed a language learner brain can get.

Rebecca Joyner [00:25:45]:
Yeah.

Risa Woods [00:25:45]:
And how. Yeah. Just like operating in your second language all day long is really exhausting. So if you think about the things that are helpful for an IEP student or a 504 student, those are gonna be some of those same strategies of the visual overwhelm or just, you know, like you said, taking off some answer choices. Answer choices. Yeah, like that is gonna be helpful. Even just like having more white space and not just having things like super cluttered in, in your test or in your. Like that’s gonna be a lot.

Risa Woods [00:26:15]:
Even though, like it’s. They don’t have an IEP or you know, some students do, obviously, but I’m not talking about those students. It’s because like learning a second language is going to be very overwhelming. You want to be as simple as possible. You want to make things as simple and as concrete as possible. So far as tests go, like, and I think you would do this with IEP or 504kids is avoiding lots of fluffy things like get Straight to the point. What is the point that you’re asking? What are you actually trying to assess? You want to, obviously, with anyone you want to assess what you’re trying to assess. I actually have a.

Risa Woods [00:26:47]:
I have an example here of a. Of a worksheet I was helping a teacher do. It was a claim evidence reasoning worksheet. And it said, for evidence. This was like the direction. Provide scientific data to support your claim. Your evidence should be appropriate in parentheses, relevant and sufficient in parentheses, enough to convince someone that your claim is correct. This can be bullet points instead of sentences.

Risa Woods [00:27:07]:
That’s a lot when you’re just asking for evidence. Like, if you could just make it, like, how do you know? Or you know, like, just something simple as that. Whereas, like, you know, if you want. You want them to know the word evidence, great. But, like, can you make the rest of it simple? Can you be as simple and as clear as possible? I think that’s going to be really helpful. And they can demonstrate their knowledge that way. Like you said, making it easier. Well, I don’t know if I’d say it’s easier.

Risa Woods [00:27:34]:
I think it’s. You’re making it so they can actually demonstrate what they know.

Rebecca Joyner [00:27:38]:
That’s a good way to think about it.

Risa Woods [00:27:40]:
I’m looking at this and saying, I don’t even know what they’re asking, right? I don’t. I don’t know. But, like, how do I know? Oh, I can tell you how I know that this claim is correct. Or I could tell you the proof that I have there. But I couldn’t tell you this, you know, before, because I didn’t know what they’re asking. So, yeah, you’re meeting the student where they are, and you’re letting them demonstrate what they know. I don’t want. I don’t want to make things easy.

Risa Woods [00:28:02]:
I want them to show what they know.

Rebecca Joyner [00:28:05]:
Right? That’s such a good way to think about it. Because I think I can struggle with, like, it has to be fair. And it’s like, well, it’s already, like, not fair. So what is what matters more? Like, because the other students don’t actually care. Like, I think in my head I was like, they’re gonna see that I’m, like, helping them so much, but it’s like, yeah, they’re already. I’m trying to just help them. What you said. I love the way you said it.

Rebecca Joyner [00:28:25]:
I wish I remember the exact. I’ll have to go back and listen. But just like, what do you actually care about them knowing? Like, it makes me Think about my safety test. We had a department wide safety, safety test. They had to pass the beginning of the year and like they got like three or four chances and then it was just like, they couldn’t be in lab. And I remember having a couple of my students and I was like, they just kept failing. And I was like, bump this. Why is this a written test? And I was, I made them come after school and I just like, I literally started a small fire.

Rebecca Joyner [00:28:51]:
And I was like, what do we do? And they showed me what to do and I broke a test tube. I’m like, what do I do? You know?

Risa Woods [00:28:56]:
Exactly.

Rebecca Joyner [00:28:57]:
And it was like, okay. We got to the point that I could trust them to be safe in lab. It’s just they couldn’t explain. Explain that in words. Which was fine.

Risa Woods [00:29:04]:
Exactly.

Rebecca Joyner [00:29:05]:
Well, I don’t know if I should have been like starting small fires, but you know, again, young teacher.

Risa Woods [00:29:10]:
Yeah, yeah. If you hear, please talk with your district in their policies.

Rebecca Joyner [00:29:14]:
Yeah. I was so naive.

Risa Woods [00:29:17]:
No, I think that’s, I mean, obviously don’t start small fires, but I think that’s perfect. That’s exactly it. It’s like they have the knowledge, they know a lot. Like, these students are not coming with blank can’t. They’re not blank canvases. Like, they have. I have students who, like I said, came from really like intense educational backgrounds. They just don’t know the words in English.

Risa Woods [00:29:40]:
Like, they don’t know how to translate that into English. And so they might even have some of the background that you’re already teaching. It’s just like, it’s just they don’t know English. That’s it.

Rebecca Joyner [00:29:49]:
Right.

Risa Woods [00:29:50]:
So I think, I mean, that’s coming back to the misconceptions. It’s like these students and I don’t know if we’d ever say the word stupid hopefully, but like, they’re not stupid. Like, they have so much. They just don’t know English yet. And I think just framing it in that way and like your fire thing is exactly it. It’s like they know how to, what to do if there’s a fire, but like they just didn’t know how to do that on the test. So.

Rebecca Joyner [00:30:12]:
So what would you say then that leads to that concept of like, okay, so how do I know then that they are maybe capable but don’t understand or maybe they’re just not doing because they don’t want to. They do understand. Like, how do you balance? Like, because I remember thinking some of them were so shy and I’m like, they’re not shy. They just don’t know what’s going on. Yeah, maybe they are. I don’t know. Like, how do you discern if they understand or not or if they’re just not wanting to do work or whatever?

Risa Woods [00:30:37]:
Yeah, I mean. Well, first, I want to go back. Sorry, you said something before, and I kind of wanted to touch on that real quick. About the fair thing.

Rebecca Joyner [00:30:44]:
Oh, yeah.

Risa Woods [00:30:44]:
I was thinking, like, at the beginning of the year, I think it’s really important to kind of set that as a tone of, you know, having a conversation with students, with your general education students of like, hey, everything that happens in here may not be fair, quote, unquote fair, but, like, every student is being challenged in this class. Like, every student is meeting this, this. This standard in this class. Maybe just being honest with your students about that so that, you know, if they look over and so. And so only has two questions, and I have three questions, like, get your.

Rebecca Joyner [00:31:15]:
Eyes on your own paper.

Risa Woods [00:31:16]:
Why do you even know? Why are you looking over here? Yeah, and just. I don’t know. I think just being honest with students, like, I think having an honest conversation, like, they’re old enough to have that on conversation. But your question. Oh, how do I know if a student doesn’t understand? Well, one, obviously, like, knowing the student is going to help. Like, knowing the student and knowing kind of who they are. Like, if I have a student who’s super hardworking and I look over and like, they’ve done nothing, like, I know them to know, I’m not gonna make that first assumption that they’re just being lazy. Right.

Risa Woods [00:31:48]:
I also think that, like, the majority of our students aren’t just gonna not do something to not do something. Like, I think there are barriers. Right? So whether that’s. I was up all night with my baby sister or, like, I’m worried about my aunt being deported, so I’m, you know, whatever. Like, I think I’m gonna start with the assumption that there’s some sort of barrier here rather than that student’s just being lazy.

Rebecca Joyner [00:32:13]:
Yeah.

Risa Woods [00:32:14]:
So what the barrier is is like, yeah, as a teacher, that’s. I mean, that’s for all of our students. Right? Like, if a student is struggling, it’s like, that’s kind of what we do. Right. What that could look like is. So I also want to say, like, students. Some students are going to come from countries where asking questions or quote, unquote, talking back is, like, a sign of disrespect. So some.

Risa Woods [00:32:36]:
Some teachers are like, well, just ask me why didn’t they ask me? It’s like, well, they’re taught not to do that or they’re taught, you know, they, they’re seen as stupid in their country. If they ask a question, they’re supposed to know this stuff or they weren’t listening to the teacher. Good. Like, well enough. So, like, some of that is cultural where they just, they don’t want to be dumb, they don’t want to be seen. They’re just kind of like maybe going through the motions or even just like writing random things down. I’ve had that before too. So they freeze.

Risa Woods [00:33:02]:
They pretend like they know what they’re doing or, you know, they don’t want to disrupt or be disrespectful. I have, I’ve have a lot of ELL students that will do that. Yeah. Just going with the mindset of this student probably doesn’t want to be defiant. What’s going on? So if that’s like maybe pulling them one on one, that’s a good, safe way to do it. If you notice a student is just like, you know, looking around or kind of like, I have a lot of students that will like, look over and copy because in their country or in their culture, copying is better than like asking for help because you don’t want to be done. Like, you, at least you have something that’s finished. So, so that mindset of like, hey, you know, like working with them to make sure that they understand, like, this is a place where you can make mistakes.

Rebecca Joyner [00:33:45]:
Yeah.

Risa Woods [00:33:45]:
Again, this is all stuff, like, to develop a classroom culture that is safe. Right. Like learning a new language, trying a new language. That’s all really scary. And if I don’t feel safe, this isn’t going to work. So I think, like I said, that’s pulling them one on one or a small group even just checking in. I mean, you have those ways to check a student’s work and if it’s like, doesn’t make sense, like, that’s, you know. Yeah.

Risa Woods [00:34:11]:
Do those, those interventions that you have. But yeah, I just starting with the mindset, I think is the probably the most important thing. It’s like they’re likely not trying to be lazy or be defiant.

Rebecca Joyner [00:34:24]:
Okay. And so I also want to ask you this because I think I kind of skipped over it back to translating stuff. I’ve had people tell me, don’t translate it because they need the full immersion. And then other people are like, you should. So is it just kind of like a case by case basis? Do you now with all the tech do you just kind of let the students translate stuff? Like, I don’t. I don’t. What. What is, like, best practice?

Risa Woods [00:34:43]:
So I, like I said, it’s. I think it’s like the paper plate thing. I think if you’re struggling and it’s like the only thing that you can do right now, then, yeah, use translation. Like, at least they have access to the curriculum if they have translation. If it’s like, they’ve been here for two years and they really should be working on, like, things in English, then maybe translation isn’t the best. It really is. I wouldn’t say maybe case by case, but I would say like, newcomers or really overwhelmed teachers are kind of like what I would save translating for. Because, yeah, it is like, you are ultimately, you are another language teacher.

Risa Woods [00:35:20]:
Like, you are helping them bridge that language gap. So by translating everything, like they aren’t learning English or, you know, you can translate maybe a few things. So, like, maybe the word you give in English, but the definition you translate, you know, kind of to help bridge where they’re still learning English, but still maybe, you know, having that language experience in their home language.

Rebecca Joyner [00:35:41]:
That’s helpful. Okay, any other tips for. They already, like, a teacher already has all these resources or maybe like, this is one of the reasons why, like, I do encourage teachers to buy curriculum. Because I’m like, now you have all the resources written. You can use your time to make them ell friendly. So what are other, like, any other tips? Because I feel like I’ve, like, jumped in and cut you off a couple times.

Risa Woods [00:36:00]:
No, I feel like we’ve jumped around. It’s been awesome.

Rebecca Joyner [00:36:02]:
I know, but any other things you may have wanted to say about, like, making existing resources teachers have like a lab or notes or whatever more ell friendly.

Risa Woods [00:36:11]:
Yeah, like I said, just using simple sentences, trying to get to the point. Like, you can even throw a lot of things in AI and like, have it modify, like, a text or I like using AI for those things. I’m not as big of a fan to create like a whole worksheet, but just like, maybe a part of a worksheet that you want to modify the language on it. Like, it’s really fluffy or heavy language. You can throw that in AI and be like, hey, can you put this on a second grade reading level? Or things like that.

Rebecca Joyner [00:36:39]:
What’s your favorite AI tool?

Risa Woods [00:36:41]:
I mean, I always just go back to ChatGPT.

Rebecca Joyner [00:36:43]:
I know, it’s so easy to use.

Risa Woods [00:36:44]:
It is so easy to use. Yeah. I’ve used other ones that I, you know, I like. But it feels like I always just, I always just go back to ChatGPT.

Rebecca Joyner [00:36:52]:
I do think it does way better when you give it information and have it work with it. Like just trying to get it to make something for you. It’s just not smart enough.

Risa Woods [00:37:00]:
Yeah, yeah.

Rebecca Joyner [00:37:02]:
Maybe the time this airs it will be but for now it’s not. So.

Risa Woods [00:37:05]:
Yeah, so that’s, that’s what I, that’s. I use AI the most in that way of like if I have like a text and a passage or directions maybe that are super confusing or a little bit fluffy, maybe I would make it simple using AI. Also like for like worksheets, if you’re having them answer questions, like providing sentence frames, it’s really important. Or sentence stems, same thing. If you’re having them. I know it’s not working, but like if you’re having them discuss something in class, like talk with your table about da da da da, giving them good like sentence structure or like structured talk. Like okay, I noticed in the lab, da da da da da. Like giving them that sentence frame so that they can participate in those conversations.

Risa Woods [00:37:48]:
And I want, I don’t want to overwhelm teachers. I mean there’s a ton but like those are, I’d say the biggest ones is just like making things simple and giving visuals are like the two biggest things that you.

Rebecca Joyner [00:37:59]:
The most important.

Risa Woods [00:38:00]:
Yeah.

Rebecca Joyner [00:38:00]:
Okay, so I would love to know too because you just mentioned like even just discussions, but we do a ton of group work like just in the lab, especially because of having limited. I don’t have enough supplies. So like they have to be in groups.

Risa Woods [00:38:12]:
Yeah.

Rebecca Joyner [00:38:13]:
Are there any tips for helping them like work with other people? Like do you keep the MLS together? Do you split em up? Like what’s. What? Like what are kind of the best ways to serve them?

Risa Woods [00:38:22]:
You know, I mean if you have an ML teacher in the classroom, I probably would keep them together. If you don’t, I would probably split them up. And this is again like where that safe environment comes in. I would make sure, you know, if I have a newcomer in my class and the rest of them are not newcomers, I would make sure to pair them either with a, with a language buddy that speaks the same language or with just a generally like a safe student who like won’t make fun of them or friendly.

Rebecca Joyner [00:38:47]:
Yeah, Kind.

Risa Woods [00:38:48]:
Super friendly and kind. Yeah. Because it’s like I said, it’s such a risk to speak in a different language, especially with people who are native speakers. Like I’m going to look really stupid if I come out and say this or if I’m trying to say this or struggling like and they’re going to laugh at me like, or I have an accent when I say something like. So I think making sure that environment is safe for them is a huge thing because otherwise they’re just going to be the ones copying or the ones sitting there and kind of just waiting for everyone else to do something. So yeah, I would think if I have an ML teacher or if I have the space to pull a group, then maybe I would pull all of them. Or if I don’t have the space I would make sure that they’re in groups where they are safe and they feel okay. Or have friends.

Risa Woods [00:39:33]:
I like that along with the sentence frames, maybe model what that sounds like. What good conversations. I mean that’s for all of our students, right? Like you’re not just sitting around talking about like what you saw on TikTok. Like you’re, you’re talking about you want to keep the language academic. Like we want to keep this environment academic in this, in, in this situation. So like modeling what good academic language sounds like and what good conversation sounds like when we’re talking about this and assigning different roles if you have the space. I know some teachers love that and some teachers don’t like the note taker and the keeper and the, you know, like that’s a really good, good way to make sure that the ML student is not just sitting there doing nothing.

Rebecca Joyner [00:40:11]:
You’re so right that some people hate it and some love it. I don’t like it. But if you’re listening and you’re like me, one thing I would do, it makes me think about what I do with my own small group in my family, which is my three children, they’re three, five, seven. The three year old gets left out in the group cuz he’s the smallest or you know, he can’t keep up with the game. And so one of our refrains is like if it’s not fun for everyone, then it’s not fun.

Risa Woods [00:40:32]:
Yeah.

Rebecca Joyner [00:40:32]:
So but if they can’t help make it fun for him, I will go be like, okay, in this game you’re playing, if you’re playing train, Rob gets to be the conductor. So I think you just giving them, if you don’t want to give everyone a role because I just like, I’m like, that’s too micromanaging. But being like, hey, this student is going to be the one who does this part of the data collection.

Risa Woods [00:40:50]:
Great.

Rebecca Joyner [00:40:50]:
You know or exactly.

Risa Woods [00:40:51]:
It’s.

Rebecca Joyner [00:40:52]:
Cause that’s simple. And you’re just, you know, you’re bopping around anyway during the lab. So just bop over and just say, you get to do this.

Risa Woods [00:40:58]:
Yeah. You’re doing data collection. Yeah, I think that’s a, that’s an awesome example to even, even in your real life to say, like, there are things that we do or examples in our real life where modification happens. Like, you know, if we’re going to a workout class and everyone else is like bopping along and doing awesome, but I’m struggling, like, oh, I get to do the push ups with on my knees. Like, you know, like that happens in real life. It’s not just in our classes. And so it’s just making space for those things to be creative and to think of ways to keep that student involved so they’re not sitting in the back of the classroom doing nothing.

Rebecca Joyner [00:41:31]:
That’s such a great point. I love that analogy. And I think if you’re listening, you’re like this. If you’re feeling overwhelmed, like, I think if this feels hard to like, do, I would work on simplifying every other part of your job so that you have more capacity for this. Because I do think a lot of the stuff you’re saying can be done organically. Like you, you’re saying like in the moment I can walk over and give you the sentence frame or it doesn’t have to be all like, I think in our heads we’re like, I do all this stuff in advance.

Risa Woods [00:41:55]:
Exactly.

Rebecca Joyner [00:41:55]:
You don’t necessarily. The case.

Risa Woods [00:41:57]:
You don’t. Yeah, yeah, I, I am definitely a teacher who like, I struggled with lesson plans or like planning everything out. Like, I am very much a person like at the time. And it’s like there’s so many things you could do at that time in the moment to accommodate for these students. Like gestures, like I said, are a big one. Like you could do that. You. I can slowly speak like right there, you know, or yeah, like you said, like creating those opportunities for different note taking or whatnot.

Rebecca Joyner [00:42:25]:
But I would have to get like a slow down sign on a popsicle stick and like give it to mine and be like, just wave this around when I’m.

Risa Woods [00:42:33]:
You just need to like listen to a podcast in Spanish first and like, remember how that feels.

Rebecca Joyner [00:42:37]:
Well, one of my closest friends here exclusively, it’s really cool. She is like an English speaker, but she just, she used to be a Spanish professor, so she only speaks to her children in Spanish. They’ve only ever heard Spanish in Their home, and they, like, just know English from, like, you know, just life. But I, like, truly, I just hear her talk to her kids, and I’m. It just. And I’m like, that’s. That’s how I sound in English to people who don’t speak English. So it’s crazy.

Rebecca Joyner [00:43:03]:
Okay, I did skip this question, but I want to give you an opportunity to answer it if there’s something you haven’t had a chance to say yet about this. So what would you say to a teacher that says, you know, I’ve got five EL students, 10 resource students, you know, and then all these kids with 504s, and that’s in one class, period. Like, I cannot help all of them. What would you say?

Risa Woods [00:43:21]:
Yeah, I mean, if you’re looking to create 30 different lesson plans, that’s not the. That’s not the goal. Right. Like, we’re not trying to individualize every single person’s experience. I think just the things that we talked about already, those accommodations that you can do or those modifications that you can do will benefit other students. Like, what, Ben? What student is not going to benefit from a visual aid? Like, what student is not going to benefit by me repeating something clearly? Like, what student is not going to benefit from that? What student is not going to benefit from Having my anchor chart is, like, super overwhelming. It has a bunch of different things on it. It’s like being really clear on my anchor chart, like, what students are going to be benefiting from that? So I think there are lots of things.

Risa Woods [00:44:02]:
The only thing that is different is that they have another language in their repertoire other than that. It’s like, everyone here is learning academic language. Like, most students aren’t coming to school knowing these things. That’s why they’re here. Right?

Rebecca Joyner [00:44:16]:
Right.

Risa Woods [00:44:17]:
So, like, you are building the bridge to academic language for all students, and you are just, like, using those other strategies to make things a little bit more clear for these students. But, you know, students with adhd, like, they’re going to benefit from these things. They’re going to benefit from someone giving visuals or making things concrete so it’s not so abstract. Like, they’re going to benefit from these things. So I say, like, great. Like, that just means you can use all these resources and all these strategies for those students as well.

Rebecca Joyner [00:44:51]:
Yeah. So true. My son’s school, they. Every teacher is Orton Gillingham certified, which doesn’t mean a ton to me because I’m not an elementary teacher, But I know that apparently it’s like, the best way to Teach dyslexic kids how to read so they finally just like, well, we’re all. We’re. Teach every kid to read this way. Because if it’s best for them, why is it not. Why not good for a kid who’s not dyslexic? Like, it just works.

Rebecca Joyner [00:45:12]:
So I think that’s. That’s a cool way to think of that.

Risa Woods [00:45:15]:
Yeah. I just want to encourage teachers that, like. Like you said, it might sound overwhelming right now, but, like, it really is worth it. It really is. Like, you are making a difference. I know there’s a lot of guilt. There’s a lot of, like, shame. There’s, you know, you feel like you’re not doing enough.

Risa Woods [00:45:30]:
But, like, even just small things, like, that means a lot when you’re giving access to students, to their education. Like, that. That’s a lot. So I just want to encourage those teachers. I mean, teachers are amazing. I just, you know, I don’t want them to ever feel discouraged from these conversations that they’re not doing enough, but just that they have such an opportunity to provide access to education.

Rebecca Joyner [00:45:51]:
So what a cool thing that you. We have an opportunity to do. Like you said, give people access to education. It’s like, the most important thing in the world.

Risa Woods [00:45:58]:
That’s awesome.

Rebecca Joyner [00:45:59]:
All right, well, before I let you go, I need to know, what is one way that you have simplified your life recently?

Risa Woods [00:46:06]:
I saw this question on here. I was like, oh, man, this is.

Rebecca Joyner [00:46:10]:
Really a selfish question. Because I just, like, love hearing people’s hacks and, like, just what they’re up to. So this is, for me, the biggest.

Risa Woods [00:46:17]:
Thing I could think of was that I do. So if there’s something I’ve been putting off and putting off and putting off, like the laundry, I set a timer for 10 minutes. I’m like, I can do this for 10 minutes, and usually I do it for more. But it’s like, in my mind, if I can do something for 10 minutes, that’s fine. You know, Like, I could. I have space for 10 minutes to do something. So I’ve been doing that lately of, like, something I’ve been putting off. Just.

Risa Woods [00:46:39]:
I just make a timer and set a timer for 10 minutes and then try to do it. And almost always I do it for more than 10 minutes, but.

Rebecca Joyner [00:46:46]:
Or you can finish the task. Like, I think tasks seem so overwhelming. Like, I’ll look around my house and, like, break out in hives. Cause there’s so many toys everywhere. But we love the timer. And I’m always like, all right, this is turbo clean time. And I’m just like, everyone go. And we just set it and we just pick up as much as we can.

Rebecca Joyner [00:47:02]:
And you can almost always get it all. Like, yeah, that is. I love that. Just, hey, I can’t do this for an hour, but I could do it for 10 minutes.

Risa Woods [00:47:10]:
Yeah, I could do it. I could do a lot of things for 10 minutes. I mean, that goes for, you know, even what we’re talking about here. It’s like, if I could just set aside time for 10 minutes to, you know, do a test or do a worksheet or modify this, it’s like, okay, it’s better than nothing.

Rebecca Joyner [00:47:21]:
Like, truly, maybe you start with like 10 minutes a week even. Not even a day, and just say, hey, what are 10? I want to spend 10 minutes, set a timer. What can I do to serve these students? Yeah, right now, you know, I love that. Okay. How can listeners stay connected with you? Cause I know they’re going to want to after hearing from you.

Risa Woods [00:47:37]:
Well, the biggest way is I have an Instagram page that I share tips and strategies for content teachers. So my Instagram is risawoods. Underscore. R I S A W O O D S Underscore. I also have a website, everyteacher.com. i’m sure you’ll put this in the show notes, but yeah, I actually, my. My main role is to go to schools and to provide professional development schools for content teachers who are struggling. So if you or your school really wants this or would like to hear more, just reach out to me.

Risa Woods [00:48:08]:
That’d be great.

Rebecca Joyner [00:48:09]:
That’s awesome. That would be so special. All right, well, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.

Risa Woods [00:48:13]:
Thank you.

Rebecca Joyner [00:48:15]:
Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to today’s episode and my interview with Risa. You can find any links mentioned in the show notes and how you can reach her directly at. It’s not rocketscienceclassroom.com Episode 204 and if you are listening and after hearing all of her wisdom, you’re now feeling more empowered to better serve your English learners this school year. I would love it if you would leave a review for the podcast. It means so much. I know it’s so encouraging to the guests if they ever see any specific shout outs. And it just really keeps me going with this podcast too. And I’m just super grateful for any and all ratings and reviews.

Rebecca Joyner [00:48:50]:
So if you could leave a review, I would love it so much. All right, teacher friends, that wraps up today’s episode. If you’re looking for an easy way to start simplifying your life as a secondary science teacher. Head to itsnotrocketscienceclassroom.com challenge to grab your classroom Reset Challenge, and guess what? It’s totally free. Thanks so much for tuning in and I’ll see you here next week. Until then, I’ll be rooting for you, teacher friend.