A Simple and Effective Process for Parent Communication With Guest Mandy Farrar [Episode 195]

Rebecca 0:00
All right, y’all Here we go. I have another guest interview for you, and I’m just so tickled to get this out to you. And I have to admit, I have been gatekeeping this interview since much earlier this year, and I know, I literally know I’m the worst, but here’s why I did this. Today’s episode is a conversation with a high school chemistry and physics teacher, Mandy Farrar, and it is so back to school coded. I just got off the interview with her, and I was like, I have got to save this for, like, right at the beginning of the new school year, because I just so badly want you guys to hear this when it’s going to be the most timely and effective for you to implement everything she shares. Okay, so I first actually connected with Mandy last year because she had applied when I reached out to listeners looking for someone to come on and speak about AI. And I was super impressed by her application. But I just had so many good applicants, so I kind of responded said, Hey, is there anything else you’d ever want to come on and talk about, like, anything else you feel like you do well? Because I really want to talk to you. I just, I feel like I have a lot of AI episodes. So I would love to talk about something different. And Mandy, in our in our conversation, just casually drops that she leads professional development for teachers at her school on her parent communication process. And I was like, Well, yeah, we’re gonna need to hear all about that. And it led to this epic conversation that I’m so excited to finally share with you today. So as a chemistry and physics teacher, Mandy has a logical and systematic process for how she approaches parent communication. But best of all, it is simple. Y’all. In this episode, she walks through her exact process step by step and shares how effective it is. Again, I wanted to time this with the new school year, because I do feel like a lot of effectiveness comes from starting parent communication early in the very first few weeks of school. And so I’m hoping that this will be a perfectly timed episode for many of you. So not only does she share her process so clearly and in such an actionable way, which, you know, we love here on the secondary science simplified podcast, we also had time at the end for me to ask her a few just kind of rapid fire questions about her cell phone policy, classroom management and just so much more. So I am so so thrilled to have had the opportunity to have learned from Mandy’s wisdom, and just, I just loved her scientific brain through this conversation, and it just really spoke to me. So I think you’re gonna get it and why I’m so excited when you hear what she has to say. So without further ado, let’s simplify parent communication this school year using Mandy’s methodology, which will be shared in this week’s episode. Let’s get to it. This is secondary science simplified, a podcast for secondary science teachers who want to engage their students and simplify their lives. I’m Rebecca Joyner from it’s not rocket science. As a high school science teacher turned curriculum writer, I am passionate about helping other science teachers love their jobs, serve their students and do it all in only 40 hours a week. Are you ready to rock the time you spend in your classroom and actually have a life outside of it? You are in the right place, teacher friend, let’s get to today’s episode. Well, Mandy, how are you I’m good. How are you? Great. Welcome to the secondary science simplified Podcast. I’m so excited to have you. Thank you. I’m excited to be here. Okay, so we connected a while ago when I was reached out to my audience looking for teachers with AI advice. And I asked, I followed up with a couple of teachers. You were one of them. And I was like, hey, is there anything else you feel like you rock at that you could come on the podcast to talk about and you mentioned your methodology for parent communication, and I was super excited that you said that, because I feel like what I had worked really well, but I haven’t been in the classroom full time since my oldest was born, so seven years. So I’m just really excited to hear from you and hear what has worked so well for you. So first, like kind of what motivated you to get started with coming up with the strategy and method that you

Mandy 4:05
have. So this was a bit of a long time coming for me, and honestly, I think my motivation was a lot of failure too. I’m not sure like how well this comes across now. And I guess obviously, for people that can’t see me, I’ll just go ahead and say, when I first started teaching, I was 21 years old, and I looked like I was 16. I remember having a teacher walk in, and I was like, up at the board, actively teaching chemistry. And they walked in, made eye contact with me and said, Where’s your teacher? And I was like, I don’t know how much more obvious I can make it like, literally right here. So I think part of it was Paris, maybe just not thinking that I had the ability to be the one in charge of the classroom, but I think part of it, too, for me, was just a bit of a culture shock when I was a student. And I think a lot of teachers can relate to this. On the other side of the classroom, when we were growing up, students were very much were. Responsible for their own actions. Like you don’t do the work, you get a zero. You don’t study for your test, like that’s on you. But now it seems a lot of that is falling to the teachers. Like you don’t students don’t do the work. You can’t give them a zero. Students don’t study well, like well as a teacher, you didn’t prepare them. And that was really frustrating for me, because I really wanted to partner with the parents. I really wanted my students to succeed and do well, and I felt like there was just this massive disconnect between what I was trying to communicate and what was being communicated. So I had this amazing mentor teacher who told me, you need the parents to know everything you are doing, and everything that their kid did, and that kind of really resonated with me, and so that made me start thinking through this email process much more scientifically. And I teach chemistry and physics, so a lot of what I do, besides just like, here are the concepts you need to know is, how do you approach as a problem solving process? So I teach my kids like, what are you trying to find? What are you trying to get to? Like, what do you have? What are you getting to and then how do you get there? So for me, what was my problem? There was a massive breakdown in communication. I was not coming across the way that I really wanted to come across. And what was I wanting? Or what was my solution? What was I trying to get to? So I wanted the parents to know that me and them, we were on the same team. Ultimately, we both wanted their kid to leave my classroom in a year being more mature, more educated, more growth, be a better version of themselves like, that was our our ultimate goal as both parent and educator. We both want that for the kid. And then, like, how do we get there? So that’s where I, like, started breaking these down into almost, like, lab report style steps for myself. I love it. That’s how I think. And so my, like, first thought was, I need to get the parents to see what I see. So I didn’t want to tell them, like, little Susie is being disrespectful. I wanted to say like, little Susie did X, Y and Z, and let the parents determine for themselves what was going on. That’s

Rebecca 7:16
such a smart like and now as a parent, because I feel like, when I started teaching, I didn’t have children of my own, and so my just like philosophy, I just didn’t know how a parent wanted to receive information until I became one. And so now, as a parent, hearing you say that that I like, I can totally see someone said your child is disrespectful, like, my guard’s up and I’m like, ready to defend potentially. I mean, I hope I wouldn’t be I’d hope I’d hear out the teacher, but that’s so much better. Like, let me just give you some data, and I’m gonna see if you can extrapolate what we’re all thinking

Mandy 7:50
here. I love that. Here’s the data. You draw the conclusion was kind of like, how my science frame is going on this. And while that was much more effective, I found that the parents that I had a better relationship with, the ones that I saw in extracurriculars or that I had, like, a prior relationship with, like I had their kids in homeroom, or I knew them from something else, it went even further. And so I was like, Okay, let’s build this up, and let’s make this better. So then I started, like, my process became, I need to start building that relationship before it ever gets to the point where I have to send home this. Hey, unfortunately, this happened today, kind of 100%

Rebecca 8:38
especially I found with, like, the AP classes, like, I try to get every AP parent to come in for a face to face conference, like, at the beginning of the year, like you said, before there’s even any potential conflict or drama, just because it was such a high stakes class, and I feel like the parents were so intense, I don’t know. I think that’s so wise.

Mandy 8:58
So like, the way that I broke that down, because I liked very actionable steps. I am not one of those people when we go into, like, professional development, and they’re like, You need to make positive encouragement, you need to have a good attitude. And it’s like, that is so vague, like, give me actionable steps. Like, what does that look like? And so mine was I need to email every single parent with a positive thing at the start of the year, and then I need to follow up when I see like a positive thing, like as much as I can email with a good thing, build that positive relationship as much as possible. So when they see like, my name come through on their inbox with an email, it’s not immediately like, yikes, it’s like a totally hooray. Your science teacher just emailed me. Wonder what it’s about, right? Not just immediate, like guards up ready to fight. And then I also found that the more that I could reward and shape the behavior that I wanted to see, the more I was able to see more of. That. And I know this sounds like so elementary almost saying this, but I think so often, like, we’re really good about rewarding what we want to see in class. Or like, Oh, that was so great that you did your homework, or I love that you did this, or I love that you did that, and they might appreciate that at the time, or maybe we only embarrass them in front of their friends being like whatever, like walk away. But if we send that home to their parents, and then their parents over dinner are like your science teacher emailed me, and she’s so proud of you, and that changes the whole dynamic of their evening for them because of that one little thing, then that might have a huge positive impact outside of the classroom that we don’t see, especially for the kids who are so used to getting, like, the negative feedback, or their parents are used to getting negative feedback. That’s like, I got this positive thing. Let’s celebrate that, and then that, just like, changes the game for them and comes back. And it’s like, you know, you can build more on that than just that little moment in your classroom. It just has a bigger repercussion.

Rebecca 11:06
It’s so true. I used to try to always email on Fridays. Like, I try to like, Oh, that’s really good. I had, like, a list, because, again, data table, like spreadsheets, like making sure I was tracking everybody, because I never had kids come for tutoring on Friday afternoon. So I use that normal, like, I’m tutoring kids, time to just send off some emails. And it was fun to come in Monday and have some students be like, Miss Joyner, I was grounded this weekend, and then my mom ungrounded me because the nice email you sent. I’m like, You’re welcome. Like, I just felt like it like, built some sweeter more. You know, does I don’t think I’ve

Mandy 11:40
had somebody get ungrounded, but I’ve had some of that that, like, dangerous, like, I was able to get Starbucks with my mom, because totally your email. And it’s like, Yes, awesome. I love that. So those are, like, by three things that I started doing for myself was like, start off with the positive emails at the beginning. Continue going reward the behavior that you want to see as much as you can, and then allow the parents to form their own conclusions, which and like, like I said, I am an action driven person, so I know that when I say those three things that I’ve said these before, when I have, like, been teaching other teachers about email communication, they always look at you those big eyes, like, you know how much stuff is on my plate, and you just gave me three more things that’s impossible. Like, I get that so knowing how that works and how my brain works, and if this doesn’t relate to anybody else, I totally get that. But for me, that was really hard. I don’t want to send emails, because sometimes it just takes a long time to, like, think through that process. And I thought of it as, like, I have this very high activation energy for writing emails, and I needed a catalyst to lower my activation energy for those emails. And for me, that was a formula,

Rebecca 12:50
a great visual for all my science teacher friends. I love it so much. I say that to English teachers, and they’re like, I don’t get it. Yeah.

Mandy 12:59
So when I had to do the PowerPoints, I have, like, a little chart of it. So it’s like, we all get a little science lesson right here about this. So for the beginning emails at the like, beginning of the year, for those, I would say, choose three students for three classes. Sorry, if you have three classes, you choose three students, and then by the end of the day, that’s nine students, nine emails. Try and just knock those out. If you have a class of 30, then by two weeks, you would get them all done.

Rebecca 13:29
Okay? So you’re finding a little bit of space during class and trying to do three kids during the period, okay, got it

Mandy 13:35
or like at lunch, do half of them at the end of the day. Do another half of them as much as you can. But if you just and sometimes, like the kids that fly under the radar, it’s hard to find things immediately this, like, what are some like, really great, positive things that I can send home about you? So I find, if I’m focusing on, like, three kids in particular, and I’m gonna find three good things about these three kids that I can focus on, then it makes that task just a little bit easier and breaks it down into steps, rather than like, I have a class of 30 kids, and I gotta find three good things about every single kid, and it’s the beginning of the year. I don’t even remember all their names, and all I remember is that this one talked a lot like, that’s not helpful. So breaking it down into smaller tasks. I found, for me, was really helpful. And I also found, like, a little formula for me that was like, Hey, I’m so happy to have this person in my class. I have already noticed that they are blank, blank and blank. I would typically not just list off three words, but rather, like kind of three ish sentences. Really excited to see where this year goes, looking forward to it, and then signed it, send it. And it was short. They were really short. They’re really simple, but they went a long way. And then as I got to know them more, I could flesh that out. I also really liked starting with the kids that if I knew that they might be kids that were. Going to struggle like start with them, so I could really get that positive start fast and early that I knew they were going to struggle in chemistry get really low math scores, or knew they were to struggle in physics and start that as soon as I could, just to try and start building them up as much as I could

Rebecca 15:15
well. And two things I love about this that you just said, one is like that method of three a day, it almost holds you accountable, too, to making sure you’re really getting to know all of them, like you said, within those first two weeks. And like one of my children, is very much like a middle of the road student, very compliant and obedient and respectful, not gonna be a high achiever, but also not gonna bring a lot of attention to themselves to be a low achiever. And so it like encouraged me to think about a teacher, like being like, No, I want to actually see this person and not them just because they’re they will very easily float along because they’re not gonna, you know, make waves. So I love that intentionality there. And I also love that you’re like, This is just straight up positive. Because for me, I would see those low math scores, and it would be so hard to resist the temptation of, like, adding a PS. Keep an eye out, because the mask can be hard for your student. Like, I love that you’re like, No, I’m just going to be so positive in this first one and try to get those out early, like you said. And you know that that might become your second email real quick, just

Mandy 16:20
because I really want to start on that, like, really positive, really positive thing. And I had a student that was failing almost every single class that they were in, including PE, but not chemistry. And I don’t have like, definitive proof of this, but I truly believe it was because of, like, how much like positive encouragement I kept giving him and his family just over and over and over again,

Rebecca 16:46
yeah, telling him he can do it. Like chemistry is purely problem solving. Like, that’s what I tell everyone. We’re learning problem solving skills, whether or not you can do stoichiometry when you’re 30, it doesn’t matter, because you’re going to learn how to like, like you said, like, have a methodology. And so I think that empowerment is so important. Same Child of Mine, I was just talking about somewhere at school. He must have heard like, people complaining that, like, reading is so hard I’m so bad at reading. Because I’m like, we have never said those words. And so now he truly is, like, we approach reading. He’s like, I’m bad at it, but I’m good at math, and he just only wants to do math. And I’m like, whoa, whoa. Like the words they hear is so important. So you, like, empower that student. Like you can do chemistry, you’re good at it, and it makes a difference. Like it, I’m so encouraged as a parent to hear you say all that

Mandy 17:29
it’s so possible, like, it’s hard. But I mean, I would also argue every learning process is hard, even if it’s like sports, every like, muscles are aching and sore afterwards because the process is hard. Like, your brains hurt afterwards because it is hard, but it’s good for you, and that’s how we get there. So fact that it’s hard, we don’t give up. We just gotta power through and keep going. And I tell my students about that, but they’re like, this is hard.

Rebecca 17:55
I’m like, Yep, it is hard, but that’s how we get there. It’s so true. You don’t get stronger, like your muscles don’t get stronger lifting weights. And you keep lifting, like, light weights, like you have to get sore and like you said, like, push yourself. Okay, I keep interrupting. You’ll want to hear more of your actionable thing. No, you don’t need to say sorry. I need to say sorry because I’m just, like, so excited about everything you’re saying. So you tell them to break it down. Like, do three a day, first two weeks. So you knock everybody out what

Mandy 18:18
else? Yes. And then, like, as much as you can. Follow up throughout the year when there’s, like, a little thing and the smaller, like, even if it’s a teeny, tiny thing, doesn’t matter. Like, I think I had a kid, he was brand new to the school. He came in, and then another student was like, Oh, hey, I know where that glass is. Let me take you. And I was like, Hey, your student showed amazing hospitality. It was really cool to see. It was like two sentences, but it was something. And I love to just, like, follow up with little tiny things, and those don’t take long,

Rebecca 18:50
well, and I’m thinking too, how good is that for your own positive attitude? We talked about bad. PD, just telling you, like, be positive. That’s a specific way to be positive, like looking for glimmers of like, positivity and joy and maturity and stuff in these students like that is a nice practical thing to do. And that’s like, encouraging you, like these kids aren’t all helpless,

Mandy 19:11
and to tell them too. Like, when I see them later in the hallway, like, Hey, thanks for showing him his class. I really thought that was great for you to do that. He’s like, Oh, thanks. I love that he’s always a little bit surprised, but that’s okay. And then I think the biggest thing about like, letting parents draw their own conclusions. And I’ve got like, kind of two things with this. One, I have a bit of a formula for it, and it’s like, step one, start with a kind greeting. Step two, I think you should immediately say why you are emailing concisely and without emotion. Because I think as a I mean, I’m not a parent, but I can imagine, if you get an email that is not a positive one, you would want to know immediately why you are getting this email and to keep somebody in suspense, I just don’t think is nice. So. Like, immediately without emotion, why they’re getting this email. And then step three, state, the facts of what happened, facts, not feelings, is so important. Instead of like, this has never happened, but working at a daycare over the summer was where I got inspiration for this. Like, kind of example, if little Susie says that her friend looks like her face got hit with a dump truck. You would never say Susie was rude. You’d be like Susie said to her friend, your face looked like I got hit with a dump truck. And then the parent can decide if Susie was rude or not. Hopefully, the parent is on your side and decides that was rude behavior. I had some very funny occurrences with this that I’ll share just a second. And then step four, offer a solution that you are comfortable with before somebody else can and then that allows you to kind of hold that line, and also sets your boundaries with what you are okay with happening in your classroom. Step five, I really like to point out the possible good in the bad behavior. And I kind of think of this as beating them at their own game, while also showing them like I am still very invested in like. I’m still invested in this relationship with your kid. I want to grow them. I want to mature them. I want to educate them. I’m here for them, but I also want to hold them accountable, and then, like the last thing is, like, I am here for you, for your kid. I want to help them succeed. Let me know if you have any questions. Kind of thing. One of my favorite examples of this was I had a student that blurted out a I won’t repeat it, but it sounded awful lot like a swear word. And vibe classroom policies, if you say that, you are immediately dismissed, like, yeah, just can’t be saying curse words in class. And he was like, oh, no, no, it was a Japanese word that was didn’t believe him, but that’s not my call. So when I followed up on the email, explained the situation was like, I didn’t know Jimmy knew Japanese, the parent wrote back almost immediately, Jimmy does not know Japanese, and followed up like there will be consequences. I got an apology from the kid afterwards, so letting them draw their own conclusions

Rebecca 22:13
helps. Yeah. I mean, it’s just so wise. One of my favorite people I bring on the podcast is my former chemistry teacher when I was in high school, and he always talks about that with cheating like, you never, ever tell a parent that their child cheated. You can just say there were some suspicious things that happened, and then, like, list the suspicious thing that happened. Like these answers were very identical. And like you said, I just think that’s so much more approachable. So now, like in those kinds of emails, are you executing a punishment? I know you talked about, like, a solution, but like, if there’s a repercussion, is this something where you’re, like, the first time, I’m never gonna punish, because I’m always just gonna let them know. And do you let them know, like, next time this would happen? Or, like, if the continued behavior this will have to be like, how are you handling because that’s kind of hard and like awkward to be like, hey, if this happens again, you know, how are you handling that?

Mandy 23:08
Yeah, so in like step four, where you offer a solution that you’re comfortable with, would be like, and typically, I really try and show the parents like I am giving grace in this situation. And be like, typically, if a student does X, Y or Z, this is the consequence. However, since this is the first time, I am just going to allow it to be a warning. However, if it continues, then blank will happen, and then if blank happens, it could be, hey, remember the first time was a warning. Now that it has continued, unfortunately, I have no choice but to blah,

Rebecca 23:44
blah, blah, Oh, I like that because I I have a problem of, like, not wanting to involve the parent, like thinking like I could handle it, and then I wait too long, and then it’s become a bigger problem. And then you reach out to the parent, and they’re like, I wish I known that this has happened three times. So I think you’re just, I think it takes the emotion out of it and the pressure off, like you said, if you’re just being really proactive, like, maybe it feels quote unquote silly to reach out, like, the first time something happens, like an overreaction, but I think it’s actually like, very like you said, it’s offering grace to them, and it’s being proactive. I think that’s really wise.

Mandy 24:21
I definitely felt like that. I think the first several years of like, I can handle it, there’s no need to reach out. But then it would get to those points where it was a bigger issue, and now it’s like, the second there’s a little thing I reach out. And I have had some, like, silly things, like, I have emailed parents at the beginning of the year with, like, a missed homework, and I’m like, This is not and I will say that in my email, like, one missed homework is not a big deal. I dropped their lowest homework grade. It is greater on completion. It’s a tiny portion of their grade. However, if this continues, this could happen, and I just want you to know that I am with you and I’m supporting your kid, and I just don’t want to see this continue because they are so. Bright and so smart, and they can do better than this, like, kind of thing, yes, and just making sure that that is out there at the beginning of the year before it like, ever gets to that point again, because I’ve, I’ve been there, and then, like, trying to retroactively, work backwards. It’s like, oh, yikes.

Rebecca 25:15
Well, then it looks so bad. If you’re like, this happened four different times in the semester, and then, yeah, what the heck? And you’re sorry. I was trying to figure it out myself. That is so great. Like, this is really helpful. And so you have trained other teachers in this process. So how has that gone? Like, obviously, you found this effective. How was the feedback you’ve gotten from the teachers you’ve trained in this strategy?

Mandy 25:38
It’s been really good. I’ve had several teachers that have just requested access to my like, shared drive of email formulas that I have,

Rebecca 25:47
like, access to the drive that sounds amazing,

Mandy 25:50
so I’ll just, like, share it with them, and they’ll like, go in and, like, put out little like, change some of the details that they need to fit their situations. And I love it, because I’ve had teachers too that will come to be at the lunch table. They’re like, here’s the situation, here’s what I want to say. Like, what do I do? And I’m like, I got you Okay? So here’s a like, go through, like, talk through the process with them and help them. And it’s honestly just been such a huge privilege too, because when I was like, first starting out as teaching. I was miserable. I was so confused. I cried so much, and I had that amazing mentor teacher that just let me come to her cry, and she was the one that told me, like, you need to let the parents know everything you did and then everything the kid did, which changed so much for me and so now, like, when I get to help others, it feels like I’m able to give back and like, kind of make up for all the tears that my mentor teacher, I tried her mood okay, I could give back now,

Rebecca 26:45
yes, you are okay. So another question is, so that is very like one to one communication. Are you also doing some sort of like mass communication, or are you just putting things like in your, you know, online Blackboard, or whatever your learning management system is like, how are you handling mass communication? Because I always did, like a end of the week, like a mass thing also, but then I can also see too, how that then they may not click on every email, if yours, if they’re also getting too many. So I’d just be interested to hear what you did, if it’s different. For

Mandy 27:18
me, I don’t do every week. I tend to try and keep it to, like, every unit, although I don’t always do every unit. It’s more of at this point, because I’ve been teaching for seven years, it’s when I feel like there’s going to be an issue. Is when I’ll emphasize something so like, when we get to a really hard unit in chemistry, I will reach out beforehand and say, like, Hey, this is a statistically a tough unit, because you have to know bonding, you have to know naming, and you are required to know those things to do well for this unit, because it builds on all this prior knowledge. So if you notice that your student is struggling, please send them to my office hours immediately. I am here for them. I want to help them. It is so important that they stay on top of it for this thing, or if there’s a big project coming up, I’ll email to let them know I do require some of my students to memorize parts of the periodic table when we’re going through that. And I’ll let them know when those things are coming up. Of like, you need to know these things. Here are the dates. Here are these things like so it’s only I would say for things that I feel like are really paramount, I’m not going to email for every like, little thing, yeah, especially when they have, like, all these other tools, like they have power school or RenWeb or whatever they’re all called now, Google Classroom, there’s so many different ones. Yes, Moodle or Blackboard was the one you mentioned. Yeah, at what

Rebecca 28:40
point, or have you ever gotten to the point your system may be so effective you haven’t had to, but at seven years you probably have. At what point do you say is the solution we need to come in person and talk to do that face to face. Or do you ever have to, like, bring in an admin? Have you ever had, like, an unhinged parent, or, like, I had a parent once that wrote me such a long email, I copied and pasted it into Word and it was like 11 pages long. Wow. I was basically like her therapist. I feel like there was just, like a download. That was a very unique situation, though, but I just didn’t know those kind of extreme situations. Because I think sometimes when we listen to these things, it’s all well and good, but I think we have a propensity to, like, think of the outliers and apply that to all and say, like, oh well, it’s always like this, or I always get these crazy parents when really it’s like a one off. But do you have any advice for those, like, one off, unhinged situations, like a once every five years, type of situation you’re gonna see, kind of, how you handle that or bring them in, or what? What’s your philosophy? There

Mandy 29:41
I have. I’ve gotten, as I’ve done this more and more, I’ve gotten less and less of those. But when there is like, I feel, I feel like you can kind of read it too in the if there’s like, some growing tension and you’re feeling like, I don’t think this is getting well communicated, then absolutely. Actually bring them in for a conference like and I would even say, like, hey, let’s meet face to face. I feel like something’s getting lost in communication, because I feel like we are both here for the same reason. We both care very much about Jimmy Susie, whoever like, let, let’s meet face to face. Let’s see if we can figure this out. And honestly, in this day and age, I would say, always have an admin present with you, just because having that third party is so helpful, and I have absolutely experienced those, like, kind of insane moments. I did catch a student cheating, and I had the parent threatened to sue me for defamation of character, of course, yeah, and she copied my admin on the media on the email, and they called me, and they were like, don’t even respond, like we got this, like, don’t even I was like,

Rebecca 30:45
an admin. I love when a parent CC is an admin, and then they call you and they’re like, I that has happened to me a few times. I was called the Antichrist once. That was probably my darkest. Oh, it was crazy. And like, before I even finished reading the email, like my principal had already called me and was like, we’re aware that you’re not the Antichrist, so I’m just gonna, like, tell you to stop responding. But I love your language. You really should be like a copywriter. You have great language skills. Like everything you just said was assuming the best, like they’re they’re dishing out some crazy and you’re saying, I feel like we must be having a miscommunic like, loss and translation, I know we’re both on the same team, like you’re speaking the positivity onto them, it’s gonna help, like, make them less defensive, you know?

Mandy 31:30
So it’s also one of the things that I try really hard in when I lead some of the professional developments, or when I’m helping people with emails, it’s like, identify the good in that bad behavior. Like, if a student is being disruptive in class, he’s probably trying to make people laugh. He’s bringing joy to his friends. That’s a great thing we love, that the world needs more joy time and place. Not so great, but maybe good intention.

Rebecca 31:55
I had a student like, basically he had a zip up hoodie on, and it was against school dress code. So I asked him to remove it, but he was not wearing clothing underneath, which obviously I did not know, like I was not aware. So then he proceeded to essentially, like, slowly unzip, like was making a beat with his mouth. Like striptease style, it was like, unhinged and wild, so awkward, so awkward. But I remember, like, saying to him later, when the adrenal was there, we had disciplinary moment. Like, love your confidence, you know, like you’re a confident kid, but like,

Mandy 32:33
inappropriate, very inappropriate time and place, buddy.

Rebecca 32:36
Oh my gosh. I’ll never forget that moment. I love that, though, speaking in the positive. So when you have a parent conference, what do you think about bringing the student in? I personally love it, because sometimes I find, like you said, the miscommunication. There’s even a disconnect between what the parents interpreting and what the student is even saying. So sometimes it helps, because, like, sometimes the student will be on my side almost, you know, but it can also be awkward, too. So what do you think about that? Or you just kind of take it case by case, kind of

Mandy 33:06
just case by case. I do love sometimes having the student there, especially if it’s turning into like a he said, she said, sort of situation. But if it’s more about like classroom policies or procedures, then I would almost just prefer that to be like, adult to adult. And I can explain, like, this is why I have these things in place. This is why I think they’re necessary. If you disagree, like, that’s great. We can talk about it, but at the end of the day, like, these are my school policies, and this is the best way that I feel like I can uphold that kind of situation. And then I would definitely want an admin present. So yeah, I guess it would kind of depend on what I think the major issue is going to be about too. Yeah,

Rebecca 33:47
that’s great. Okay, that’s awesome. Regarding all things parent communication, I have a couple other questions I want to ask you, while I have you one of my favorite questions to ask, especially because you teach chemistry and physics and I’m a more life science minded? Is there just a concept that you feel like you teach really well, or maybe like in a unique way that maybe you could share with listeners?

Mandy 34:09
I absolutely love the way that I teach nomenclature, because I think like, it’s such a boring topic, but it’s also patterns. And if you think about it. It’s like

Rebecca 34:21
puzzle. I think it’s fun, but I can see why other people think it’s boring. But I like it.

Mandy 34:25
I do too, and I sort of teach it in, like a reverse engineering type way, like kind of inquiry almost, where I give my kids all of the the names and the compounds, and I have them all on these, like little flash cards, and they pretty much go through and they figure out the rules of nomenclature on their own. And, like, I’ve got a packet that kind of guides them through it and ask them questions, gets them thinking in the right way, and breaks down a little bit, and, like, helps them out. But for the most part, they really just do it on their own, and they learn it so fast. And so much better, because they had to sit there and figure it out for themselves, rather than just me telling them and them trying to memorize it. It’s like they had to sit there and, like, learn it, and it just cements in their brain. And I have so much fun with that because of, like, how well they get it, and then they understand it too. Like, why do these things have Roman numerals, but these don’t, and they’re like, Oh, well, because those you need to donate multiple oxidation states. Obviously, I’m like, yeah, obviously, of course,

Rebecca 35:28
I love that. I feel like I wasn’t even real. I didn’t really see the value at all the model stuff, until I got introduced to POGIL. So I taught AP biology, and I was obsessed. I was obsessed with having to look at these diagrams of these complex biological processes, and then draw the conclusions, like you said, and then we circle back and fill in. So are you doing that? Are you doing ionic and covalent, like, all at once, or is that

Mandy 35:51
too much, uh, separate? So I do covalent first because it’s easier. It is easier, and they’re able to, like, gain some confidence, figure out, like, what they’re doing. And then I do Ionic and I kind of break ionic down into just binary first, and then we throw in the transition metals, and then we throw in polyatomics, and then we throw in acids.

Rebecca 36:10
Okay, so how many days would you be spending on this?

Mandy 36:13
About a week, week and a half, okay, because I do a lot of practice and reinforcement right there too.

Rebecca 36:19
Okay, I love that. All right, people are always asking about everyone wants to hear everyone’s thoughts about cell phones. Because I just think it’s hard. We’re still we’re all kind of figuring it out. How do you personally handle cell phones? What’s your policy there?

Mandy 36:31
My school actually has a really strict cell phone policy. They have to be in the lockers at all times, and if they are seen at all, they’re gone.

Rebecca 36:39
Wait, and you’re in South Carolina too, right? Yeah, I think it’s a statewide thing, right? As of, like, a month or so ago, it’s, yeah, it’s great, is, like, I think I’m pretty sure I got a notice about that. Okay, so they keep up with their lockers. Love that. Do you ever have instances, though, where you’re, like, wanting them to do research and they don’t have a phone? Or do you guys have, like, iPads or Chromebooks or something.

Mandy 37:00
So the school that I’m currently at is not one to one, it’s a classical school. So they are very, like, I don’t want to say anti technology, but old, like, you know, old school back. I love that kind of thing. And the only like, quote, unquote issue that I’ve run into that is that with physics labs, I really like the slow motion aspect of cell phones, because to get the timing on something that is dropping is so hard to do correctly. Oh, true, but they all have the phones, and if they have my permission, they’re all able to go get them, got it, and then use them for the lab, and then go put them back up. Okay,

Rebecca 37:37
I love that, so you gotta do special permissions there. I love that school policy. I like, I always hate to tell teachers this, but I’m like, sometimes, like, I think we think the students are the problem and all or we’re the problem, and it’s like, no, like, your admins the problem. You need to go somewhere else, where they have, like, better policies and better reinforcement. I have been so grateful to be at schools with great admin. It makes such a difference. Okay, what about student apathy? I feel like that’s like a our post pandemic epidemic is like the apathetic student. So how do you motivate those students in your classroom that are just like, not very motivated? That would

Mandy 38:11
has been hard because I this year, I have a class of and it’s the same class, but I’ve got one that’s like, super motivated and one that’s like super not motivated. And I’ve almost had to turn the one that’s like, not motivated into just like, kind of a game where I will walk around and just sort of like talk show host style, just ask them questions and get them involved. And it’s like, for me, it’s a bit exhausting, but it’s like, the more engaging I am, the more engaged I can get them to be. And they are, at least at my school, they are still grade motivated. And so when I’m like, Hey, you’ll need to know this. It’s on a test. What about this? Remember this? And I’m like, just going around, like, kind of, I don’t wanna say interrogating, that sounds wrong.

Rebecca 38:51
But like, but like, like, you said game show, like, quizzes, yeah.

Mandy 38:55
And getting them, like, on their feet and thinking and making it fun and engaging, like, I can get them to, like, kind of buy in with me and but I also, I am privileged to say that I do have a smaller class size, so I feel like I have more freedom to do that with them,

Rebecca 39:11
which I love, though. But I mean, that’s, I mean, that’s great. I feel like really leaning into your own personality. And like you said, if you’re engaged, if you’re fired up, they will be like, I’m naturally introverted. But I also went to art school, like, fourth through 12th grade, so I can, like, channel my inner musical theater kid, like, if I need to, and, yeah, I’m gonna be exhausted when I get home, but like, I can just spice it up, you know, just to get them fired up. Okay, what about just classroom management in general? Do you have a technique or a hack or anything you found really successful for major your class.

Mandy 39:42
So I had a teacher friend call it this, and I was like, that’s actually really accurate, but I don’t know if it’s a good thing. Obviously, I work at a high school, so I have a lot of, like teenagers, a lot of attitudes. And when I get like attitudes or SaaS from students, it really. Really doesn’t faze me, because, like, you know, whatever. And she’s like, you will just Sass them back harder. And for some reason, that just really works for my class so well. And it’s like, you can be sassy all you want. I’m gonna out Sass you any day of the week, and at the end of the day, we’re all gonna get done what we need to get done. And that’s that. And

Rebecca 40:20
that’s you, like, again, like, leading into your personality. I’m like, that my daughter. I’m like, she tries to sass me. I’m like, sister. Who do you think made you like? Who do you think got those genetics from

Mandy 40:29
you got my personality? Never out

Rebecca 40:32
sass me. I know she really is like, a It’s a humbling to like, have a miniature version of yourself, you know, parroting back at you things that you say, it’s crazy. Okay, when we originally connected, it was over the concept of AI. So I want to provide a little bit of space here at the end of our conversation, just for any ways that you are currently using AI that have just simplified your life and have just been really effective to

Mandy 40:55
implement. I feel like with chemistry sometimes and like problems like stoichiometry and physics. You know, it’s kind of the same problem that you’re writing over and over and over again, but you have to figure out, like, a new one. And I just have ai do it for me. I’ll, like, put in the problem, and I’m like, I want five variations of this thing, and I do have to go through and check it, because AI is actually really bad at stoichiometry, which I have found

Rebecca 41:19
so bad at chemistry. Yes, really, really bad. No. I found that when I was writing my chemistry curriculum in 2023, that was like, early AI days, and I would try to help get it to help me come up with problems. So so sick of it, and it was so bad at it. I was like, Okay, you might be smart AI, but you are terrible at chemistry, especially stoic. But now I didn’t even think until I talked to people about AI in the podcast last fall. But when you you put in the example, and then it learns from you, like you’re, like, you said, give me five different versions of the same thing. So smart. So you do sign, I have to, like, double check it. But like, what I would never have it make an answer key, because, like, absolutely no, gosh, no, yeah, it’s I did

Mandy 42:04
one time try to teach it so that I could have IT grade for me. And I was like, literally sitting there trying to teach a robot about mole ratios. And I was like, I give up. I cannot do this

Rebecca 42:13
well. And that’s the reason why I think so many of us are, like, just not into AI because we tried it once we realize it’s not as smart as people make it out to be. And so then we’re like, I don’t have time for this. Like, I don’t have time to teach this computer how to do science, but it is, like, definitely a little bit of a back and forth situation. You can coach it up, but you gotta be patient. I don’t have patience from a computer,

Mandy 42:34
and it is sometimes good for email communication too. Like, if I’m really struggling with especially a delicate situation, like I had a student make some sexual innuendos in class. I was like, How do I politely say professionally say this? And chatgpt actually did a really great job, and I, like, took it and edited it and made it like what I wanted, but it was like I was having a hard time coming up. Was like, how do you say this? Like, this is awkward. I want to

Rebecca 43:01
circle back to that. So, like, you list out the three bullet points of the sexual innuendos they say, but you’re not going to call it a sexual innuendo. So what are you saying after you listed out those facts of like, these are three things they said. Are you saying they felt inappropriate? Are you not even saying something like that? Like, how are you because that’s tricky. So how are you transitioning from the facts of what they said that was a sexual innuendo, into not calling it that,

Mandy 43:29
I think in that situation, I actually did, because I Okay, didn’t want to

Rebecca 43:34
leave it to chance. Yeah,

Mandy 43:37
I said actually reading the email, I wanted to reach out to regarding some behavior patterns I’ve seen starting to emerge I find a little concerning. Lately, student has been the instigator of some inappropriate jokes during class. While I understand that students sometimes test boundaries with humors, these comments are not appropriate for the classroom environment. Can be distracting to the learning process. Oh,

Rebecca 43:58
I love that follow up sentence. You did call it inappropriate, but I like it. Yes, these can be funny, like the humor, I like that. You said that, but great work

Mandy 44:08
that one with us. Like, so awkward. I was like, it’s like, sometimes it’s hand motions or like, sound effects, and it’s like, that doesn’t translate well to an email an email. So it was like, sometimes I feel like, you just gotta call us a spade a truly. And then if it, if the parent does, like, say, like, Well, I disagree. You can be like, okay, refer to admin. Like, now, what like, right? Maybe this does need to become like an in parent conversation. And you can have the student like, hey, why don’t you show the hand motion you did, why don’t you make the sound effect that you did, because I’m not going to do it like, right? Sometimes those situations will trigger secondary teacher problems, you know? Yeah, I get jealous of the elementary teachers. I’m like, oh, that must be nice.

Rebecca 44:51
I know. Okay, I always like to end my conversations with my guests asking if there’s any way that you’ve simplified your life for. Recently, so it could be school, outside of school, whatever. So how have you been simplifying your

Mandy 45:04
life? Okay, so I’ve been like, low key fangirling this whole thing, because the way I simplified was I took your course on secondary science, simplified and it was life changing, and it was

Rebecca 45:15
so good. You took it recently. Yeah, I had no idea. Clearly, I’m not, like, tracking these things now that I made it like evergreen, because it used to be like cohort style, but now it’s, you know, take on your own time. Okay, that’s so

Mandy 45:26
exciting. So I was like, when meeting you face to face, I’m like, wow. Okay,

Rebecca 45:31
really sweet. I’m obviously just a very normal person here. Okay, so what did you feel like? What was like if you had to pick one takeaway, but you’re excited

Mandy 45:39
packets. 100% of the packets have been like, life changing. To me, I’m still like, the formatting is probably not my best work, but I’m getting better every unit on how to do them, but

Rebecca 45:51
and you figure out your way. Like, even I wrote biology was my first one in 2016 and then I redid it in 2020 because by then I had a new way of like, yeah, just working with it,

Mandy 46:02
I discovered that doing them in PowerPoint is way easier than doing them in Word. But you know what? It’s okay, I’ll get there.

Rebecca 46:08
It is. It’s way easier, but I feel like I’m too far gone, like I’m too committed to Word, and the toxic relationship I have with it and, like, image, text arrangement. But yeah, it is so much easier if you can just do PowerPoint. Okay, I’m so encouraged to hear that. So thank you. Surprise plug I was not expecting. So I’m just so excited to hear that. Okay, so if my listeners want to connect with you, what would be the best way to do that? So I really

Mandy 46:35
am hoping to, like, put some of the, like, labs and stuff I’ve developed on teachers, pay teachers, but I haven’t done it yet. I think the best would be my Instagram, which is at Chem with Farrar. Okay,

Rebecca 46:46
we’re gonna link that in the show notes, and then hopefully everyone listening Mandy and I are having this interview, and normally I’m like on it, know exactly when the things are gonna air, but I’m not 100% sure when this is gonna air. So maybe by the time this airs, though, if you have that all set up, we can link it in the show notes, so we’ll add that there, if it’s set up by the time this airs, or just whenever you set it up, let me know, and I can add it after the fact. Okay, because that would be awesome. Seriously, thank you so much for your time. This has been

Mandy 47:12
a delight. I really appreciate it.

Rebecca 47:15
Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode and my conversation with Mandy. I hope you found it as practical as I did, and are excited to implement it this school year. I have linked her Instagram in the show notes, which you can find at, it’s at rocket science classroom.com/episode 195 if you would like to connect with her, and if you are listening and you are so excited to try Mandy’s strategy this year, leave a review for the podcast and tell us how helpful this episode was all right, teacher friends, that wraps up today’s episode. If you’re looking for an easy way to start simplifying your life as a secondary science teacher, head to It’s not rocket science classroom.com/challenge to grab your classroom reset challenge. And guess what? It’s totally free. Thanks so much for tuning in, and I’ll see you here next week. Until then, I’ll be rooting for you, Teacher friend, you.